The Addiction Nobody Talks About: How Losing Everything Became Her Greatest Win With Heather Simco

What if losing absolutely everything- your home, your business, your identity- was actually the beginning of your greatest comeback? Heather Simco built what looked like a perfect life from the outside. Homeless at 17, she clawed her way to becoming Mrs New York, earning a master's degree, and co-owning a successful MMA gym with her husband. Then she threw it away, one drunk email to a shareholder, and watched it all disappear. That rock-bottom moment on April 30, 2014, became the first day of her new life. Now 12 years sober, Heather is the founder of Sober Boss Babe, where she helps high-achieving women run thriving businesses and navigate life without relying on alcohol to do it.

In this raw, no-BS conversation, Jack and Heather unpack what addiction actually is, why "good" addictions (exercise, hustle, achievement) can be just as dangerous as obvious ones, and how the "same root, different branch" concept explains why people often swap one addiction for another without ever fixing the real problem. They also get into the practical stuff high performers need to hear: the "why test" for digging to the real issue beneath surface problems, why scheduling a vacation every 8 weeks is a non-negotiable for sustainably high performance, the power of a 15-minute morning stillness practice before you touch your phone, and how to do a time audit that shows you exactly where your life is actually going.

One quote from this episode will stay with you: "Feelings are like children, you can't let them drive the car, but you can't put them in the trunk either."

This one is for the coaches, entrepreneurs, and high performers who are winning on paper but quietly wondering if the cost is too high.

GUEST LINKS

Heather Simco | Sober Boss Babe
 Website: www.heathersimco.com
Linktree: https://linktr.ee/heathersimco

BOOK MENTIONED

Buy Back Your Time - Dan Martell

If this episode hit home, subscribe to The True Form Podcast for weekly conversations on fitness, mindset, entrepreneurship, and becoming the best version of yourself. Drop a comment below with the moment that hit you hardest; Jack reads every one.

Hosted by Jack Graham | Melbourne, Australia

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Transcript

Heather Simco 0:00

I was driving home. I couldn't stop past the place that sold alcohol without picking it up. I get home, my husband's my best friend, won't talk to me anymore, my daughter's dying. No one will pick up the phone in the middle of the night. I'm by myself. No one to call but God. So I finally just surrendered and asked him to help. Feelings are like children. You can't let them drive the car and you cannot put them in the trunk.

Jack Graham 0:16

But that's the thing. Like a lot of people don't know what their dream is. They just think they're going along them with the motions. And a lot of people think it's fame, money, attention.

Heather Simco 0:24

We had all the other things. That's why when I hit alcoholism, I thought the keys that I had used to unlock all the other problems would work. And it didn't. So blissfully unaware that I was like, oh, there's an alcoholic key. I mean that I you didn't equip me with this one. Really. And that's why the self-reflection, I was I was running from either my addiction, my brokenness inside, trying to heal all this thing. I was running away from something and overcompensating in that direction. So that's usually so ego is not necessarily a good thing when we talk about it.

Jack Graham 0:54

What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the True Form Podcast. Before we dive into today's episode, I just want to thank the Legends at LumaFlex for sponsoring today's episode. I'm actually blown away how this little red light therapy device is dramatically improving my health recovery vitality. Later on in the episode, I'll tell you how I've been using it and why you should think about getting one yourself. But first we'll dive into today's conversation to help us, you and me, find that proof for. But let's jump straight into it. Heather, I appreciate you've come on the podcast.

Heather Simco 1:28

Thanks for having me. Especially our time to always say it's the best way to start today.

Jack Graham 1:38

I did want to start with uh addiction. I did see some of your content and it was very interesting and a little bit triggering for even myself about addiction. And so when you when the word addiction comes up, what's the first thing you think of?

Heather Simco 1:57

It I mean, has a totally different meaning for me now because I'm in recovery of addiction. Um but I've seen it in so many different ways. So really, and I've had to work with people who are addicts and or just have an addiction they're working through. And usually it's something that is controlling you instead of you controlling it. That's that threshold of, you know, is where what what's leading who in the whole situation are, you know, is it controlling you or you controlling it? So that's usually the main addiction mechanism to look at.

Jack Graham 2:28

How do we figure that out? Like the video I was watching, you were talking about, like you said, addictions can influence what you're obviously influence what you're doing, but sometimes, as we're just talking about, exercise. Exercise can be addictive, but is it good? Is it bad? So are there good and bad addictions to have?

Heather Simco 2:48

Yes. Again, where the threshold becomes extreme. And I've gotten very good personally in figuring out where that threshold is. Uh, because when it's was it's not one addiction to be something else. And so um uh for me as an addict, a recovery addict, it's same root, different branch. And but as humans, there's always some everyone needs some kind of coping mechanism. So working out, again, my husband will call me out on it. Are you at the gym for three hours a day or are you just going and doing like 45 minutes, like getting up at 4:45 versus 6 a.m.? Like, you know, how much is it consuming your life? And so when I work with clients or help people really identify if they have, if they're addicted to something, we can deal with the addict part later, is I usually have them walk through a week of their life and basically take a self-inventory. How where are you spending your time? Just no whole spark, like whatever it is, don't even lie, just be honest about where everything is. And then we look at where their time is being spent and we look at the thing that's the most, whether it's food, grocery shopping, like whatever the thing that's so extreme. And then we take a week and I say, All right, now try without it for a week. How did that feel? And then you can really gauge how much is controlling your life or not and where it needs to be, you know, whether it's in extreme, it's a detox, whether, you know, where where it kind of lands. You know, whether they can make it in one day and then they're done, then they have a pretty that's a much bigger problem. So that's usually how I walk someone through finding out what that that you know threshold is.

Jack Graham 4:17

Well, I definitely can't go a week without training. I go I miss a couple of workouts and then I feel itchy and I need to get into the gym again.

Heather Simco 4:24

Yeah. But if you there's I mean, you do it for a living, so it's a little and I did I used to do it for a living when we owned an MMA gym. And uh so there is, you know, there's a part where it's your job, and then there's a part where you're doing it twelve hours a day. Like because I do, I work out six days with meat. That's an essential part of my wellness. That's my serotonin, my antidepressant. Um, but again, if I find myself there, I don't I'm not a fitness trainer for a living anymore. So if I'm there more than I'm in the office, and it's not my outfit, I gotta check myself. So that's where it's you know, it's not always the one size fits all.

Jack Graham 4:59

Yeah, and that's sort of what I wanted to touch on. Like obviously I love what I do. Like I love exercising, but I also love coaching people. So, like I said, I spend a lot of time in the gym and as you have in the past as well. So at what point does it come become something bad? Like I've been trying to figure this out for myself. But everybody's like, you gotta work, work, work, but then also take time away and have a break and recharge and and do that sort of thing, like look after yourself away from your addiction, I guess you could say. So at what point should I stop, reflect, and then go, okay, well, maybe this is too much?

Heather Simco 5:38

Well, what's the point at which you unplug? Because even where I know probably a better thing is just to reflect where I was at in that same industry, is when I came home, did I turn it off? Was there a point at which I stopped emailing clients, scheduling new appointments? When am I doing the family thing? What am I doing with my personal stuff? Or and when am I continuing working? And am I able to turn that off? Can you turn your phone off? Can you know, do you have a work phone and a uh a personal phone where you can kind of segment out your personal life? How often are you taking a vacation? Because like I said, if you're in the gym, like it's one thing when you're training trainers, but you know, or coaching people, what where are you turning that off and taking care of yourself? It and it is a the the achievement addiction is very real where you get more clients, you get more money, you get, you know, more gains, you get more testimonies. And so it it's it's a very affirming process that is very dictating in itself. So there you go, now you're cross-addicted. So, but yeah, I find when it's it becomes unmanageable that those other things in your life, are you compromising other healthy things in your life because these things are coming in front of it? And that's where I did in my own life, where I put work in front of spending enough time with my daughter, like a lot of things fell to the wayside because I just put too many of of what will seem to be good in front of everything else. It becomes manageable.

Jack Graham 7:04

It's crazy how these little red lights on your skin can have such a positive impact on your overall health and wellness. I'm actually disappointed in myself for taking so long to get into red light therapy. But the industry is just full of products. Like super expensive lights that is. But if you want to get your own flex, you can use the code proof at first. So I'd have a lot of clients that would almost not use exercise obviously because I'm not sure. Let's say I want somebody to be more addicted to exercise, but they're addicted to say social media is the worst. A lot of my clients have issues sleeping. And a lot of the time they're taking their phones to the bedroom, they sit there scrolling on their phone for an hour before before they go to bed or fall asleep. So, how do I get them away from that addiction?

Heather Simco 9:24

Yeah.

Jack Graham 9:24

So, how do we break that off and get them to start focusing on something a little bit more for their health?

Heather Simco 9:31

I would say a good challenge, you know, like say I'll give you an extra session or whatever it is that you can incentivize them with. Because I've I've taught I've taught seventh graders, I've humans in general, when you give them something constructive to work towards, they're more likely to respond to it than anything negative. So if you say, All right, I want you, you know, like leaving accountability. I want you to turn off your phone, even if you can't sleep at night, then stare at the wall, turn on the TV, do something else, read a book. You know what I mean? Turn off the phone. And if you can manage to do this, then after a week, then I'll give you an extra half hour session or something else, like whatever, you know, it is that you can offer as an incentive. And then now they have the time that they're sleeping better, and hopefully they feel the difference because now that they're resting, gains don't happen if you don't get enough sleep. So that's probably why they're not feeling the benefit of the working out, is because they're not sleeping enough. So they're it's hard to get into that gear when you're not resting like you're supposed to. So they're just showing up for the sake of showing up and ticking the box, but they're not necessarily they're not gaining all the health benefits. So that would be one suggestion.

Jack Graham 10:37

Yeah, it's like what you just said before about me, like when you're coaching, it's like you get you start getting more clients, you get more money, you get more testimonies, you've got to get that incentive away from the phone, which is hard sometimes, that's for sure.

Heather Simco 10:51

Yeah. But you giving them something that would be equally and even even I would say small goal, something tangible, so they don't give up and go, Oh my gosh, I can't do that for a whole week. Three nights. You know, I mean it's something even though your client's the best. So if you have someone who might be extremely like, yeah, I'll show you I can do that for seven days. And the other ones are like, whatever, you know, you give them yeah, two days. Uh, and then do a reset. And just that way they can kind of see what what else is there. And like I said, giving them alternatives of okay, so if you can't sleep, try reading a book. Because even my daughter who's like ADHD, she has a real hard time falling to sleep. Her problem is she'll read and then she's super interested in what she's reading. But at least not scrolling her phone sending me reels all all night. I'm like, how long has he been up?

Jack Graham 11:36

And then you know, redirecting. I've got one client that started crochet and then like which was great, but then now she stays up to 1 or 2 a.m. trying to finish off her another like uh argument. An interesting job, that's for sure. I love it. Oh definitely. Okay. But let's dive into your story. I I I'd love for you to go back for like go back however long you think is necessary, but uh your resilience as well. Like you've obviously gone through addiction yourself, but you've built a business, failed, and then you've you're back again, like and you're absolutely killing it now. So I'd love to hear about your journey.

Heather Simco 12:18

Yeah. Um I started my parents were actually teenagers when they had me. Um, so I w grew up in a broken home right out the gate. They actually got married, but but they were teenagers, so that didn't last. Uh, and then my dad got custody of me, and again, moving around a lot, finally moved in with my grandparents. He marries the girl next door, and she's only 14 years older than me. He she's pregnant down there. I'm like, Dad, really? Can you make it like once? And funny enough, full circle. He met someone in Australia on Facebook, married her, but now he's back in Florida and out here. So that's it. He's got his own sticky story, but that's the story of the addict. Um and my stepmother, everyone's got their own problems, but she was stepmom, Cinderella story, just verbal abuse. It really was very toxic, broken home environment. And my I was second mom, my brothers are five and ten years younger than the half brothers, and by high school I got very depressed. And also growing up in this kind of environment, most of us are any you're in a broken environment. You have to present a version that doesn't, you know, clue people in of what's going on at home. So you have to present a passada version of yourself, a perfect person, so no one gets waned and finds out what's going on on the inside. So I got very good at presenting the version I wanted you to see, and then protected the person on inside so I couldn't get hurt. And by my freshman year, I had a really good best friend who got a little too close. And my stepmother said, Absolutely not, cuts her out of my life, and my first drug of choice was food. So I went on the seafood diet and gained at least 40 pounds from my freshman to sophomore year. And this is the 90s. I was in a school in California where there were girls on the coverage of my magazine. So imagine going back like this no not a fun environment. Um and so I pretty much bootstrapped my way through survival mode my whole life. And even though I was super depressed and at a certain point suicidal even in high school, the light was so much closer to graduate and get out than it was to do something that drastic. Plus, I was like the neighborhood neighborhood babysitter. Um talk about entrepreneurial shit, my parents own their own business. I've been b I've basically been self-employed since I was eleven. Um, soaked in my blood. And I'm like, not for my family. I was like, oh, my teachers and the kids that babysit, I'm gonna do that to them. So I just focused on getting good grades and getting into college. And my stepmother was from New York, so we ended up moving across country. I got into colleges in California, New York. And by the time we moved out there, I was done being treated the way I was being treated, left for college, no driver's license, no car, in a whole new state at 17, college, homeless, like thought. But you bounced from going to Darm, you don't have a home. And uh so that survival mode and really trying to figure things out really was even more ingrained. And I found alcohol because that was an intrusion. I was my parents were so controlling. Um, my dad had his own problems, but they were swapped under the rug. I found the first solo cup, my first, hey, let's go to a party. I'm like, oh yeah, sure. Um so I had the normal college drinking experience for the most part. That seems crazy because your peers are doing it. And when college stopped, my crazy behavior did not. Um I met my husband in mar in in that process. We started dating my sophomore year college. We're still together now, almost 30 years. And he is an entrepreneur teaching MMA, starting one of the schools, like on the inception, like it had just started in 93. He opened a school in 97. So this is when no one knew what Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu was, all of these things. It was just the forefront of the the first wave of of all this. You couldn't even legally fight and compete in New York with MMA at the time. It was crazy, like whirlwind. Um, and so I helped him with the business and I started teaching. I put down the drink long enough to have my daughter, um but picked it right back up in the MMA or in any kind of self-environ self-defense environment, we had a lot of law enforcement and it was a very high enabling environment where uh if I got pulled over, I had a whole like folder of who how many calls do you want to get or let Heather go. So I I did not get the trouble I should have. And there were a lot of great stories where definitely that should have been the case. But between the enabling and eat I was more I was successful despite how much I was drinking is really what it came down to. And uh we finally sold part of the business and moved to Florida, semi-retired in my early 30s, from homeless to like semi-retired was like we literally living the drink. And I'm super depressed. I'm like, I literally have everything I could have imagined, you know, house and you know, pool and you know, paradise. And I'm depressed and suicidal. Got in a car accident, somewhere randomly, not drinking related at all, luckily, surprisingly. And um had an injury, so all of the time everything that I've worked towards, I was Mrs. New York, I've got my master's degree, built business, so all these titles that I was chasing to validate myself were taken away. And that's where the drinking really spiral and accelerated. And we found a church because we're like, well, we need community. My husband's a recovering Catholic. I didn't grow up with anything really significant. Um, and met the women who were sober there who were happy about it and sharing it. I'm like, You don't say that out loud, first of all. Secondly, you're not happy about it. And third of all, you still say that out loud. Like, we don't talk about these things. These weak things are already. Um, but it was those women who were so warm and welcoming that brought me to my first meeting. So one would become my first sponsor. But it would take a year and a half before my final bottom hit because I thought I was unique, that I wasn't one of them. And I'm like, no, I don't think so. Um but the behavior just got so out of control that by April 30th of 2014, I hit my bottom. I was driving home, I couldn't stop past the place that sold alcohol without picking it up. I get home, my husband's my best friend, won't talk to me anymore, my daughter's done, no one will pick up the phone, middle of the night. I'm by myself, no one to call but God, so I finally just surrendered and asked him to help. And that's the point at which the compulsion to drink was lifted. However, in that process, that's where we lost business because I sent a very mean uh the worst email I probably could have sent, hung over to our shareholder, and it all came crashing down. And I should'd still be living off of those residuals, to say the least. But I think growing up through all of that survival mode, knowing I there was always something inside of me that said that I could do it against all odds, that I pushed me through all these things. And so once I had to start literally all over again, that's what I did. I was like, all right, whatever I've gotta do to do this sober, then that's what I have to do because these things are just too important to me. I don't want to lose my what I still have left. And luckily I didn't lose my marriage, my husband, my daughter, my house, like so many more th I mean a business, fine, you can rebuild a business, but there are some things you just can't get back, and I was on the cuff of that. So yeah, I mean the resilience of my childhood definitely set me up for I don't know. I've maybe it's the addiction of not tell telling me what not to do that. I'm like, I'll prove you're off is my resilience. But I just I'm a fighter, so like that's just who I am. You know, if you knock me down, fine, I'll get back up. Like I'll learn from it.

Jack Graham 19:40

It it comes through. That's thank you for sharing that. That's a couple of different directions I want to go for that. There's so many so many follow-up questions. Just before we dive in on that, nature and nurture. Like you said your dad had a few addiction issues. Do you think it was uh I guess some would say in your DNA, or do you think it was just in that environment that you were brought up in? It was certain traits or habits that were instilled from your father?

Heather Simco 20:11

A little bit of both both of my parents. I I later found out that alcoholic, that addiction gene is usually genetic. When this is a joke for your your people, if you shake a tree of alcohol, a family tree of alcoholics, a bunch of empty bottles will fall out. So um, and I grew up my it was swept under the rug. I didn't know my dad was drinking because it wasn't in the house. He would be out working and come home. I thought he was just sick growing up, not that he was drunk. Because I was in my own survival mode. I just kind of like numbed out just to survive. So I really wasn't aware until now that we're both adults and and sober. I was like, oh, that's what happened there. You know, like, you know, then it's different, like start coming on as to what the whole adult situation was going on versus my version as a kid. Um so in my experience and in being in the rooms of recovery, it's usually it's it tends to be genetic. Um it's kind of wired into us. Not to say that someone can't kick that into gear and be an addict, but it's no nine times out of ten, it's kind of already in your DNA to begin with. Because I didn't see it that way growing up and I still very much fell into the trap without even realizing it.

Jack Graham 21:22

Yeah, well, I think you're proof of that that yeah, it might be in your DNA, but you can definitely kick it and get over it, like not over it, but beat it for sure. So you said that you didn't know at the time, but you uh how old and what what point you realized that your dad was drinking to excess.

Heather Simco 21:42

What I was out of the house for a really long time. Um like I knew he had a coin. I didn't understand AA at all. Like I I thought it was a punishment, so but I didn't understand alcohol, my parents didn't drink around me, like it wasn't a our normal lifestyle. Um so it didn't occur to me that that was the issue. And I found out, gosh, how old was I? My daughter had already been born. This was crazy. So my dad got divorced from my stepmom and then starts dating my biological mom again. That was very strange. Um and that was the point at which I realized he was an alcoholic. Actually both of them are, you know, one once they recover the other and was still in denial. And so that was that experience. I was like, oh, but I had my own addiction, so I I didn't I later conceded that that's where that was.

Jack Graham 22:27

But the reason I asked that because a lot of the time when people are trying to get over trauma or addictions like therapy, it's always look at look at the past and see what shaped the future. So do you think then like ri coming to the realization that oh yeah, my family did drink, did was that helpful in a way of helping you get over it or get through your your addiction?

Heather Simco 22:53

Uh they were independent from me because I was on my own path. And I think for me, helpfully, it first of all, let me forgive them because they were kids just raising kids. They did the best with what they had. Um and I wasn't fully aware of the level of addiction until I was into recovery myself, and I'd already been sober. So looking at my past, I was more my own past of what led me into uh drinking and learning how to let it go, which was fully independent of them. But most people, I think sometimes it almost it can be a bit of a crutch and an excuse to stay in it because it's just how I'm wired. Like there's some song from uh jelly roll, your bloodline. Like you it's it's you hear the song if a certain song hit now that I'm in recovery. Um, but you don't have to be what's in your blood, which is really interesting. You can break those cycles. And so I mean, I knew there were toxic cycles. I knew of all the other ones, you know, teenage pregnancy, all the other we had all the other things. That's why when I hit alcoholism, I thought the keys that I had used to unlock all the other problems would work, and it didn't. But I was so blissfully unaware that it was like, oh, there's an alcoholic key. I mean that I you didn't equip me with this one. So yeah.

Jack Graham 24:07

Yeah, um I'm glad you said that because yeah, it can be one of those things where you learn about your past and it's almost like you said, you I almost identify it as it even more in a way, which or you can use it to create stories that are that's why I'm doing this, and that's okay. You did say when you joined the church and you were trying to get help, you didn't really join in because you're like, oh, I'm not one of those people I I I don't identify as like a non-alcoholic or whatever you want to inter and it can be the same with exercise, but all the time people will over-exercise to the point where it's very damaging for their health. And like, no, no, I'm not one of those people, I'm healthy, I've got control of it, and I don't need any help. So I I'd love for you to touch on that point there because a lot of people uh will tell themselves stories and tell them it's okay, but yeah, they sort of need to join in with the crowd and that community so they can heal or get over the addiction, what that whatever they're trying to do.

Heather Simco 25:13

Yeah, and I can totally speak into this too, because running running an MMA gym, uh the people that would get addicted to it. I'm like, go home to your wife, stop buying $300 G's, like knock it off. And so I and it I didn't I I saw that they're like, this is like our church. I'm like, that doesn't sound right. Your MMA gym should not be, this is not right. So it's hilarious now that flip sides are church is highly ironic in our lives. Um but yeah, it's a really easy trap to get into, you know, working up to an extreme. You see bodybuilders that are just they're they're too big. Their body doesn't know the difference between muscle and fat. And you know, so it's almost unfortunately some of those situations, they almost have to hit a different bottom in that and feel the extreme and why it doesn't work in order to come back from it. And some people you can, you know, it's depend it's it's almost personally based. But for me, when I went in there, I was comparing because I really I didn't want to be there. I'm like, ugh, great. Now I'm I've you know the scarlet letter of alcoholic on me, wonderful. And at the time I didn't realize how empowering it would be to own my own story and own my own addiction instead of being ashamed of it. I think most of us are running from some level of shame or version of ourselves. And the power in owning it, as terrifying as it is, of owning your own truth of who you are and what you've you know, what your your shortcomings are, actually become a superpower. And so I think when people can kind of tap it's an interesting way to help them tap into that because they're if there's there's an extreme, they're running from something. So it's just kind of working under, you know, as a coach, like how are things at all because your mom like I've had that happen with people, and like, oh, like some old man was so mean to me at church. Like we had to we started the church, there was a lot of like super boomers, and he was just mean to me all the time. And I'm like, man, what is this guy's deal? He had a ho homebound wife. He came and retired and she ended up having a stroke. And he he did like her main caregiver. I was like, I've been kind of mad too. So I killed him with kindness, but I try and find where there if there's something extreme going on, there's something that's not the problem, there's something else behind it. And when you can get under that, that's where you can find the healing and kind of you know, dose down like the extremes that that they're they're they're putting in place of what they're they don't want to face or deal with.

Jack Graham 27:34

If you could go back and give yourself advice in those first couple of gatherings, but what would you say to be more accepting of the help?

Heather Simco 27:44

Um you're not that important. You know, like you just just listen. You know, and I was always so good. I meant like I used to be a history major, but listening to other people did not make the same mistakes as them. And I'd probably go back and tell myself, you you need to do the same, like instead of because once I stopped comparing and learned how to identify and see myself in their story, then I realized, oh, okay. And they're happy. I'm like, why did you know their lives are so much better now that they're not drinking, why am I holding on to something that's literally killing me? You know, and that's part of the addiction process and the the degradation of your brain and the mental illness of it. Um, but yeah, I would I would let myself know. Um, but also they take it took what it takes. So I don't know if uh me going back to myself would have changed anything. Um other you know, maybe, but I don't know if I would have listened to me at that point. I was really mad. Even me.

Jack Graham 28:42

Yeah. Oh, I say that. Uh it's a good question to ask, but at the same time, I wouldn't even listen myself five. You just sort of skipped over it, but it's almost like a superpower that you have. So you said when that man was angry at you, you didn't a lot of the time when somebody gets angry at you, you just get angry back and you just react in the same emotion. You sort of took the time and you said you just gave them a lot of love and care instead of anger. And then you found it. Like you took the time to ask a question, be curious, and found out what actually happened. But that right there is definitely a superpower that note like not a lot of people use these days, they just react. Is that always been something you've done, or is that just something you learned recently?

Heather Simco 29:35

Learned in recovery, because hurt people we have so many bumper sticker sayings, it's on it's endless. Like there should be an encyclopedias and say the least. But hurt people, hurt people. And so what at least as an alcoholic, what I would do is when someone got mad at me, I would use that as a reason to drink. And and I never really needed one, but I do it would be an excuse. Someone got mad at me, I I'm mad at them now, so I'm gonna go drink, you know, drink out. And so what I learned in this is that hurt people, hurt people, because most of us come from broken homes in the in the rooms of recovery, that I'm not the reason they're mad. And then we learn that. I'm like, okay, well, what is the reason that they're mad? I'm just the trigger, I'm not the reason. I'm not the you know, I'm I'm just the what they're shooting at. I'm not actually the problem. And so we learn a lot of that. At least I had really good mentors, just so many other, like really wonderful people around me to teach me these like lessons. Um, and because it my anger is going to bring me back to where I don't want to be. So it's self it it was self-preservation, but at the same time, it taught me so much grace about other people to not like if someone's in traffic going nuts, are they driving to the hospital because there's an emergency? Like, what what is their issue? And that's none of my business. So it it actually keeps you in a and like you said, instead of reacting, responding, because emotions, high emotions become an addiction, and that's what us alcoholics will do. We put down the drink and now we're addicted to anger, or we're addicted to another emotion that's just as an adrenaline rush, whether it's chaos or victim or poor me. And so you start thriving on those. So we learn how if that if you're starting to get into that mode, then you're it's your mind looking to eventually get back to a drink or to an unhealthy addiction. And so we're taught to kind of reflect in those. And you know, the Bible, love your neighbor, love your enemy. Those are some other things kind of in tandem with the whole thing. So putting both lessons together, it's like, let me just find out why he is mad, because I'm not the reason. I didn't do anything to him. And that's the other thing too. Did I do something? That's the other part of the crowd. Did I do something that would have caused this person to be mad at me? And how many of us reflect like that? Like that's what we did in recovery too. Did I did I cause this problem to begin with? Probably, maybe not. Apologize anyway, and then you know, put yourself in the other person's shoes. And much more peaceful living. But you know, when you like the extremes, it's it's a lot more difficult.

Jack Graham 32:05

Yeah, and 100% agree. It's uh a way more it's way more peaceful living like that than also mat trying to match everybody else's energy and anger or disappointment or whatever it may be. You said you had an encyclopedia of bumper stickers in that topic. Any other like before we move on, is there any others?

Heather Simco 32:23

Oh, there's so many. Yet you're eligible to. Um they don't really come up in conversation. Like the the rearview mirror is smaller for a reason. Don't stare at it, you'll crash. Uh, this is one of my favorites. I one of my other sponsors. Feelings are like children, and I you can take this all the way to me. Feelings are like children. You can't let them drive the car and you cannot put them in the trunk. So good. I can go on for days. There's probably too many. But usually the for whatever situation there's like we got something. Because we're people of extremes, you need something quick and easy to do to digest to like stop, like stop cycles.

Jack Graham 33:07

Uh that yeah, that I love that. That was so good. Yeah.

Heather Simco 33:10

I can still t-shirt. I'd be like, what?

Jack Graham 33:17

Um all right, let's change directions a little bit. When I sent to the questionnaire to come on the podcast, one of the questions is what topic do you want to talk about? And you sent back a sentence that was very intriguing. And I'd love to know where you want to go with these. So when I asked what do you want to talk about, you said learning how to develop a healthy balance between body business at and performing at your peak. Where would you go with that?

Heather Simco 33:46

That is, and especially dealing with high performing or entrepreneurs, is learning how to balance. And you were talking about this, like where do you put in yourself? Because one thing I learned, um, so you know, you would think, why would you be so grateful to lose a business? And like it it was really life-changing. But when I got to the end of, you know, basically, the end of the yellow brick road and this beautiful, what I thought was the end glory of everything, there wasn't I wasn't there's nothing in me left at the end of it. I lost myself in the process. And luckily, young enough I can turn it back around. Um, but finding the balance, and that's the thing in in recovery as well. My life depends on balance. And what was so magical about being in recovery and even my own coach, when I have learned to not be in extremes, I was addicted to weight loss competence for a while. I'm like, what is the matter with me? Um and learning how to balance mental, physical, and emotional parts of your body, then you can be more efficient at your job. Like we were talking about your client, getting enough sleep, uh, knowing when to take a vacation, knowing when to turn things off. And when you finally put that balance of all those three things in place, your body is better. Now you're happier, and any kind of issues usually kind of subside because you don't have the same inflammation. Any issues you have generally start to become way more manageable because I still have nerve entrapment and other issues from my accident, but I can still get on my husband jokes, we get on the leg press and I can do like almost 900 pounds, which is more than my husband, which is hilarious. Um but I know what I can do now because I can I've I have more things in balance. I'm also not doing them to an extreme. And so because my life has depended on the balance that I thought was so almost like not cliche, but I it didn't I was like, uh, I love extremes. Like you know, it felt so good to always be doing something so fast and uh but when I'm working with clients, when we can bring all those levels in and balance everything in their lives, then you're actually living life. Because what are we here for? You have a business, you're making money, but then you don't give yourself enough time to enjoy it, or you get married and then you're you know, you you're not taking care of yourself, you know, or whatever the case is. So they're all so intertwined. And so when you finally put the oxygen mask on yourself, not to an extreme, but enough to kind of self-reflect, it you find the magic in all the different areas of your life coming together almost effortlessly once you put them all into place. And it's it's a long process, this isn't a quick fix, you know, as seen on TV guaranteed situation. I've been at it for 12 years, which is why I'm so passionate to help shorten that that road for people for women now. Because I it for me to I'm like, it took me 12 years. I'd like to only take you a miniature amount of time because that was a long, a lot of self-inventory and reflection to figure this out in hindsight. So yeah, that's why it's so important to me.

Jack Graham 36:48

Let's go back to the start there. So, like you said, you sold the business, you had more money, you're living the dream. But that's the thing, like a lot of people don't know what their dream is. They just think they're going along with the motions. And a lot of people think it's fame, money, attention, and then you get it, you're like, ah. So and like I said at the start, I was watching one of your videos on this topic, and it was very triggering for me. So I I I've been doing a lot of work myself trying to make sure that I am living the life that's what this podcast is all about, helping people find their true form and living a life through them. So I really need to make sure I'm doing that, otherwise I'm just I'm not really doing my job. So I do reflect on this a lot, but you're saying a few things there even then. I love working and I love doing things to the extreme. Like a new idea comes up, I'm like, all right, I do it and I'm just straight into it and I I've listened to content Do I do it too much? And it was just really good for me to stop and reflect and take the time to look forward like what am I actually building towards? Because I feel like a lot of people don't do that. So if you could go back to the start and say to people like before you even start working towards your goals, like what should they be thinking about and what should they be doing?

Heather Simco 38:10

Usually the best thing to do if someone's kind of lost in what their purpose is or whatever direction they want to go, in something's off, I I do the why test. Because that's that's what got me. That's when I figured I was addicted to weight loss competition. I found uh some woman on uh in Ireland actually, who's great, and I'm like, I I do the competition, lose the 20 pounds, look amazing, and then like go back to normal. And uh, but finally I got to who I one of my personal coaches I have now, she's amazing. Um, I had to go through why. Why because something I knew was off and I didn't know what it was. And so I had to ask the why, and then though another why and uh until I got to that point. And so that's usually what I work with with my clients is they don't necessarily know what it is. You ask why enough times it's like a little kid, but why? Oh why, but why you even get annoyed with yourself, eventually did it it presents itself. What is that? And that whatever they're wrestling with, whatever is not connected, it it starts to come to the surface. So even if a purpose isn't necessarily necessarily there, the underlying issue, the thing that's been just underneath the surface that they may not have wanted to look at comes to the surface. And then once you dissect that, then you can start moving toward what that looks like. But usually that kind of stuck, like almost like a doorstop in your soul. Like once you figure out where that is, then you can move forward.

Jack Graham 39:33

Yeah, I 100% agree. Asking why. And a lot of people don't ask why, they just do things. They just going along. Yeah.

Heather Simco 39:40

I like it. It feels good. Why not? Ask why, why not? Exactly.

Jack Graham 39:47

And that's pretty much what we've been talking about, isn't it? Like feelings versus stopping and asking why. Yeah. Um but sometimes uh obviously men and women can be different in this scenario. Ego can take over and that feeling and why can get very mixed. So any any advice on just like high performers are the same. Like any high performer, like the ego can just sort of influence you. Yeah, this is why you're doing it. You should be doing it this way. So any any thoughts or strategies on that, I have enough and go for me and my husband.

Heather Simco 40:21

He has all note and go. It's like I took it all. I I always joke, I have a male-sized ego. Um, uh and I realized it's an alcoholic-sized ego, but it was definitely it was I was in my lane. Like I was I don't know. Um but yeah, it it it definitely is very difficult to dissect. But even under ego, you're hiding from or you're trying to run away from something towards what your ego is trying to fill that void in. So my I still have an ego, but I can catch myself now when my ego is leading in. Like, is this about me? Or is this like here? You know, um, but yeah, no, it can I I would say it's more human than anything else because I've lived it myself. Like my husband's like, I don't care about that. I'm not competitive. I'm like, oh I can't deal. So I mean, so I I think it's like it's a it's it's high performance, it's personality, and really, and that's why the self-reflection, I was I was running from either my addiction, my brokenness inside, trying to heal all this thing, I was running away from something and and overcompensating in that direction. So that's usually so my ego's not necessarily a good thing when we talk about it.

Jack Graham 41:30

Like Yeah, and uh it can be uh I guess this is what I've been struggling with for a little bit as well, like understanding my ego, making sure that's not driving me. But then if I haven't got anything driving me, then what am I working towards?

Heather Simco 41:46

Hmm. What are you working towards?

Jack Graham 41:49

Yeah, and that's that's what I mean. Like that's what I've done a lot of work on that because but once you remove that ego, then you're like, oh well, who am I? Like what life do I actually want and what am I doing this for?

Heather Simco 42:02

Yeah. And that's really when we're working with clients, that's that's like the caviar. That's really what you want them to figure out because that's when you can really start readjusting everything. Because obviously as business owners, like we're we're wired totally differently. And you know, the more leads you get, the more clients, it's it it naturally feels good. But same thing where I've had I've lost a lot, I've gained a lot, I've lost a lot, and it it has really humbled me to where an idea of what I would have wanted, like it's you know, for you know, just argument's sake, a giant house. I would never want a mansion because I know the maintenance that goes behind it. But if that was my main call, but then then I have another thing. And that's what I realized in my own personal journey. When I keep running towards things, I'm not happy. When I'm doing it for the sake of, especially now in in an industry where I'm helping people transform their lives, the byproduct is money, but the purpose is totally different. And that's where it takes my ego out of it because I've and I've had to show I do a lot of it just on ministry side. Like anyone who goes to my church, they're you know, I just make sure I don't that a lot of people I do this work just pro bono. And and that keeps me very humbled because yes, it it's awesome to be able to get paid for this, but my purpose is really to help pe women find that and really be the best versions of themselves. And it takes the ego out of it. And like, okay, some things would be nice and this is the main question. It would be really nice to have and I've had this a private chef again. Hallelujah. That would be amazing for my meal prep again. I'm tired of cooking breath. You do my macro. I'm over it. I needed to have that, it was amazing. You know, like uh flying on really good flights, like all the different fun things that are that make life fun. But I got to the point where if I have it or not, it doesn't change who I am. It's just a bonus along the way. And that's where really that's that's where the that changed consists. considerably of what I'm doing it for. Yes, the numbers are fantastic. That's a great byproduct. But really at the end of the day, you know, I it it's awesome to have those things and I've had them. I've tasted them. But I think I'm more appreciative of them at this point. And it I've learned it won't make or break my my life whether I it'll be nicer. But I'm not going to lose sleep over not getting a a private chef again at the moment.

Jack Graham 44:26

And I I love that. And that's exactly what I was talking about. Like getting to the point where you're driven by passion rather than the ego and the numbers, fame, money, whatever you want to put in there. You've said it took you 12 years to figure this all out and you're trying to shorten that for your clients. Yes, asking why several times until you actually get to the real answer. Any other things we can be doing to shorten that period?

Heather Simco 44:54

Yeah um honestly I like I said in the beginning before it's a time audit inventory and all the things that I've done in life. My husband going through pastoral school and he had to go to seminar seminary and they would say where your paycheck like where your checkbook is super old school um your calendar and uh will tell you where everything's going. You know they're like wherever your attention goes your your everything flows, you know. Um so for most people before they realize that they even need to change is a a very easy step before you can start rearranging your life is looking at what your life looks like in real life and you know picking up choice like even uh I don't know if you've heard Sam Martell's book uh buy back your time so you learn how to delegate and buy back your time. What things can you give to other people just because you can do everything doesn't mean you have to do everything. Especially as mom oh my gosh. Like how many bags I I'm gonna do everything myself. Like I got it don't help me you know I'm superwoman until everything falls apart. Um so same type of thing like where you can live your life and learn how to delegate those types of things. And so that's a really important thing in that you find that in that inventory. How much time are you cooking? Can you meal prep for two hours on a Sunday? Because I love it now. I cook my husband's like you're meal prepping soft same again I cook for the same like for seven days and now that we're in my fridge I get home I can microwave it and then sit on the couch for an hour. So I like it's beautiful time that I get back as a result. So um whatever you want your life to look at like if it's not what you want it to be that's the key to starting and identifying what that is to actually change.

Jack Graham 46:31

A bunch of my clients are now using these amazing little red light therapy devices from the Legends at LumaFlex. And it's awesome to see the effect with my own eyes. I've been telling everybody how these things just improve your overall health and wellness but your recovery as well. I've even had one client use it as a part of her recovery protocol after getting PRP in her elbow and 50 I cannot believe how fast the time went away and start doing exercise to strengthen up their elbow. Other clients just love it after a half second we do big length I use it on their link after I and I know the next day I can still get up after which is we we all know that's good to have a next day but you can literally I on the podcast talking about you didn't talk about start is actually because you can literally put this on any body part scraps and you can put it on your shoulder arm back anywhere on your legs anywhere you want it can go. So you know you're gonna get the benefits and it's gonna help that body part recover. So if you want to check them out and learn a little bit more about red light therapy device check out the link in the description or scan this QR code. When you're ready to get your own one make sure you use the code trueform at checkout to get 10% off your Lumiflex product. I love that and it's like you said a lot of people don't even do that or wouldn't even know where their time or attention is being like drawn drawn out yeah for sure.

Heather Simco 48:17

But where am I in my Instagram feed? You go out and you're like I lost this time what was that book again? Oh um buy back your time Dan Martell definitely gonna check that one in yeah so he does math on and especially as business owners okay what do you get paid per hour and then what is doing that job now you're paying that like yourself that amount of time like doing some of these simple tasks and then it opens up so much more time for yourself and then you spread the wealth and you have more time for freedom for yourself as well and it's every every level like can your spouse pick up this chore can you redivide responsibilities can you know do you have a family member who loves to do laundry some people my husband likes to do laundry I do not he does the laundry so it's really learning how to reorganize and delegate things so you have more time to actually live life.

Jack Graham 49:08

Yeah and that's the thing like a lot of people are using all these technology like you know you got vacuums that will vacuum your house dishwasher all this sort of thing even getting somebody to do the washing for you it's like you save all this time but then they're adding more things in and they're just taking up more time and by doing like stopping and taking inventory of your time you can actually go well like I don't need to do this I don't need to do this and I'm just adding things in to fill bought like blank time. So yeah I love that.

Heather Simco 49:42

And so in human work is it just it really you realize where you can economize and that's the thing as a business imagine like getting a full night of sleep and knowing getting something that you like bookkeeping. And that's what I did for a lot of businesses on the back end I was the administration because as someone on the front end and that's what I did for my husband in our business he needs the brain space to create the content to do the instructional to do all of those things that I mean the best companies delegate out. I mean they have like the most minuscule of jobs all the you know all the way down to the bottom. Why don't we do that in our personal lives? And we kind of forget that it all applied so especially having the time and mental energy to do the other things in our life and sometimes it can just be nothing. It's okay to just sit for and do nothing but that it then you take the guilt away knowing that all the things are getting done. And it might seem weird because now you're delegating out and I have to man manage more people but if they're really good at what they do it takes very little management. And then if they don't do it then you give it to someone else. But at least now it's not you having to juggle too much and then break down because you know if you told one more tile you're gonna lose your mind. Your kid's like I need this one more snack you know it's like I've even taught moms like teach your kids how to meal prep like those little cute foxes give them the food let them pack it. And now you don't have to have their lunches anymore. And now they're proud of their work and they have their snacks already pre prepped and and they understand portion control.

Jack Graham 51:05

So three birds with one stone so we've asked why we've made time. Yep what could the third thing be third thing taking taking time off.

Heather Simco 51:19

Learning when to take a vacation that's so so huge. Um living the lives that we have lived in extremes and even now in ministry we don't really get a lot of weekends so we go away every eight weeks. We go we stop and just get away for eight every eight weeks. Not everyone can do that maybe a long weekend but finding finding time to stop and not feeling guilty about it. And that that's the other part. Especially in America like we glorify like never using our vacation time. Um but you know what are you living for if you're just gonna burn out at the end and not be able to enjoy it. So you can take all of your six days you know in a little bit or all at the end is kind of what it ends up being. And so allowing yourself to be able to carve out more time to stop in and just enjoy it's is so essential.

Jack Graham 52:11

How do you identify that? Should you just book it in autumn and just do it automatically or that's what we do.

Heather Simco 52:18

Like we just got back from our vacation last week and we're like okay when's our next one? Who's covering for us on Sunday? Who's doing this? Like we were already it's already in the book like the next two or three are already kind of carved out and so we already know you know it might be eight or nine maybe seven you know sometimes it's a little off but for the most part we've we've gotten to the that schedule of doing that and it's been healthier foundries that allows people to actually like show up and give them the chance to actually fill in that void, miss you when you're gone. That helps as well. Oh you do all of this geez when are you coming back? So you get a little people appreciate you a little bit more too and you kind of step away and let them feel that that the difference in that void that you know it's interesting what happened.

Jack Graham 53:07

That's probably one thing that I'm gonna take away and start doing from this episode because I I get in the habit of I I'm in a growth period at the moment just trying to grow this podcast again chasing the numbers but you know I also love this I love these conversations. So it's it's very hard for me to step away. So I've almost convinced myself that I don't need a holiday but I have got one booked in later on the year but I'm like oh I don't need to I can just keep going keep going so and you're the second guest that's actually does that like just books it in. Like it doesn't matter what's happening but it's just like that's when their holiday is and that's when they go.

Heather Simco 53:42

So and the one thing that's beautiful about that and because my husband and I both like creators and when you step away it actually creates more growth because you you're not so close to your business. We used to do this even when we lived in New York and we're running our business we were able to get away you can look at everything because you're not in the grind of your daily routine you can look at it from a bird's eye view and you get so many new ideas. Like I have tons of new ideas. I've like we're emailing ourselves like it's not that you stop working you give yourself the time and allowance for the creativity to flow because you're not stuck in the grind. And so what you think is actually not helping you grow is counterintuitive actually helps you grow even faster because you have that space and time to to be able to you know not do the normal work things but come up with new ideas because your mind is now open to being able to do that.

Jack Graham 54:31

So it's actually you can get addicted to vacations like growth vacation like content creation vacation but is again is it a bad addiction if you want to I don't know.

Heather Simco 54:45

Then it's like well if you let on to constant vacation then that's a problem. But again that one's like you have it scheduled out you it's in your budget what can you do? And sometimes it can even just be a staycation I find I will work if I'm home. I need to be away from myself I I'm you know I know myself well enough now to put the things away we go to we're in Florida we go to Disney World all the time so it's I'm I'm on you know it's pirates now right now I can't I can't help you with your problem. So um but every you know even if it's just an Airbnb and even in the same town just to change your environment and scenery you know it doesn't have to be extreme it doesn't have to be expensive just you know just change change your scenery for a little bit just to unplug and have a different perspective. It actually is way more productive in the long run I found.

Jack Graham 55:30

100% and I'm starting to practice that a little bit more so let's wrap up I I got I usually got a pick between two questions to wrap up but I I kind of want to know the answer to both. So I'm gonna hit you with both. What gets you excited in the morning? Like what fires you up wakes you up every morning and just drives you to do what you do the transformations that I see in people um I mean the testimonies that I have gotten from doing this work and knowing there's everyone needs somebody and if I can be that somebody for them then that I mean there's nothing more price than that.

Heather Simco 56:14

And so that's just wonderful and and you know I have a wonderful family so they they they drive me what are we doing today? But yeah those are my two main you know get me out of bed fire starter Love that.

Jack Graham 56:29

If you could get every single person to do one thing every single day and it has to be a practical thing where they actually have to take time and do it to help them live a long health healthy happy life what's one thing did you reckon everybody like would impact everybody?

Heather Simco 56:51

What everyone can do is take 15 minutes upon waking up and just be still. Don't turn on your phone, just have a drink of water and just be still because everyone can do 15 minutes if we get 15 minute breaks. But like when you wake up do what you need to do but just find a spot. That's what I love. I love the first 15 minutes of my day because it's just quiet. It's just me and my thoughts I can just kind of like relax think let everything kind of flow before the chaos of the world kicks in. I think everyone can do that. Even if you set your alarm back just an extra 15 minutes that's tangible for everyone or your client they just stay up to the 15 but yeah I think that's something because when you can start hearing that inner voice you can start doing something with it. Because I think most of the time we're just through we're shutting our our that inner voice up and so it allows it to speak to you know and help answer those whys and the other things that people might be stuck in.

Jack Graham 57:48

I love that and 100% everybody can do that and a lot of people are scared to do it because they they don't want to sit there and listen to what their thoughts are telling them. I want to hear you Heather I appreciate you coming on the podcast sharing your stories uh a lot of good insights and takeaways from this episode so like I said I appreciate time. Yeah uh where can people learn more about you and connect with you?

Heather Simco 58:15

Yes on my website HeatherSimco.com um I've got my reset course I've got a community of amazing women in there um you can apply for coaching and all my handles luckily I'm the only Heather Simcoe out there doing this so insta tik tock YouTube it's all at heathersimco.com so you can find me there uh in all those different areas so that's it perfect I'll link them all in the show notes.

Jack Graham 58:38

Heather thanks again.

Heather Simco 58:40

Thank you.

Jack Graham 58:41

What is up? Thanks for being here at the end of the episode. Obviously you've enjoyed it and it's helped you find your true form. And I'll bet you know somebody that's gonna help find their true form as well. So I'd appreciate it if you could copy this show link, send it to one friend or family member and say hey have a listen to this. It's gonna help you find your true form I probably have no idea what you're talking about but it will help them. And I'd appreciate if you could do that. Also all podcast platforms they have some sort of algorithm so the more you interact with this episode the better it's gonna perform and help reach more people and help them find the truth form as well. So fast our review positive comments like comment however you can interact with the episode I'd appreciate that and everybody listening that hasn't heard of the truth form podcast is going to appreciate it as well.