Episode 233: The Truth About Influencing: Growth, Purpose & Self-Discovery + How to Start a Podcast in 2025

In this episode of The True Form Podcast, I sit down with Whitney for a raw and real chat about life behind the screen. From the highs and lows of building a personal brand to the struggles of starting over in your 30s, this one dives deep into growth, identity, and learning to live on your own terms.

We also chat through the step-by-step of launching a podcast in 2025, what we’d do differently, and why being consistent matters more than having the perfect mic setup.

🎙️ Topics we cover:
✅ What it’s really like being a full-time content creator
✅ Rebuilding your identity after burnout or big life shifts
✅ How to tune out external noise and reconnect with purpose
✅ Whitney’s journey into therapy, healing, and redefining confidence
✅ A beginner’s guide to launching a podcast (what works in 2025)
✅ Honest thoughts on growth, rejection, and starting fresh

Whether you're a creator, thinking of launching your own podcast, or just figuring out who you want to be—you’ll take something from this one.

🎧 Listen now on your favourite podcast platform or watch the full convo here on YouTube.

Watch me on YouTube
https://youtu.be/DkWW2DbU_ik

Listen to the True From Podcast 
https://trueform.buzzsprout.com 

Follow me on Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/jack.lgraham?igsh=Y2tranE0NDJjN2gz&utm_source=qr

Transcript

Whitney. Jack. Thanks for coming on the show. Thank you for having me. When I say the word influencer. Oh, boy. What's the first thing? That's a loaded what it is. Yeah, that's a I starting off. I can feel it. See, I'm learning this through therapy.

00;00;22;10 - 00;00;46;18
Unknown
I feel like myself kind of backing away. Don't back away. We need you. Close the up to microphone. Okay. Yeah. What? What's the word? Influencer. What is. What's the first thing you think about when I say it? Okay. What? And that is, that is a self projection. Oh, I mean, we had that conversation. Was that on camera before?

00;00;46;21 - 00;01;13;26
Unknown
Okay. We had that brief conversation about my history. I think, you know, I think this industry has created such incredible opportunities for so many people and changed so many people's lives. And I've said that seven years ago as a bright eyed, bushy tailed, like 23 four year old kid.

00;01;13;29 - 00;01;55;13
Unknown
There are so many ups and so many opportunities and advantages of this influencer world. Whatever you want to call it. Tick tock is whatever. And I think it would be really lovely. And this permeates into a lot of different industries, not just this particular industry. If we saw a little bit more of maybe the darkness behind it, so people had a bit more idea of what it is that they're actually signing up for, because I think, you know, sitting here as someone in my 30s now, I'm a lot more aware and a lot of the the reality of what's going on.

00;01;55;15 - 00;02;17;13
Unknown
I think when you're in your early 20s, as a lot of people, maybe when they're kind of feeling out, mate, what if I go into this mode of being an influencer? I think there's just a lot of cases where people can get taken advantage of, and that's probably the part of it where I have this natural reaction to be like, oh, what do you think?

00;02;17;14 - 00;02;35;01
Unknown
Like when you become an influencer, it's only the good stuff that you put out there. Like, like you said, it's like no one shows that dark side. No one sees behind the scenes. It's only the things that you as the influencer. It's only the things that you want people to see. Like what? Why do you think that is?

00;02;35;04 - 00;03;03;11
Unknown
Well, I mean, I think now more and more people are choose to be and feel more comfortable to share themselves more fully and truly and transparently, more and more. Much more. Do you think that's an age thing or is that an at the moment thing? I think it's both. I think societally it's more acceptable to almost be polarizing in a way like where we're in a place in society where things are a little bit extreme.

00;03;03;14 - 00;03;24;20
Unknown
Like you're either perfect or you're imperfect. And it almost feels like we're trying to figure out what a healthy balance of in between is. And I think at the same time, with age at least, I mean, I can only speak for myself. You get into a place where you are a bit more comfortable in your skin and you're not afraid to say how you feel.

00;03;24;22 - 00;03;50;18
Unknown
And I think when you're in your 20s, you don't have that sense of self-assurance. And if you don't have the right support system around you to back you up, then that's when things can become a bit dangerous or less than ideal. When you're in a position of being taken advantage of. And at the end of the day, we live in a capitalist society, so we can't ignore that.

00;03;50;21 - 00;04;32;28
Unknown
And I think a lot of the like your question was, why do we not see the darker side? And a lot of that darker side is contractual. It's monetary. And you don't as the person on the other side of that contract, you don't get as many say that. You don't really get to speak your voice. And I think if you look at someone like Taylor Swift, whose father is a lawyer and came from a background of knowing how to fight for their child, a lot of us aren't in that position where we know how to fight for what's right and wrong.

00;04;32;28 - 00;04;54;08
Unknown
And I think if you look at I'm not a swiftie, so I could be completely wrong. But based on what I know, she had that support system around her that allowed her to define who she was and how her career was built up. And then you look at a lot of, say, other celebrities who might not have that, like Britney Spears.

00;04;54;08 - 00;05;10;08
Unknown
Again, I'm not a big like musical celebrity person, but if you look at the support system she had or lack thereof, and you look at her outcome, does that kind of make sense? It does. Yeah.

00;05;10;11 - 00;05;38;08
Unknown
So the word influencer, when I hear it, I think about like, what are you trying to influence? Where I feel like a lot of people just go, well, I just want to make reels and be famous. And it's like, well, but then what are you influencing then? So, like, I guess looking at your previous influencer life and then what you're going to transition into, maybe after this potentially.

00;05;38;11 - 00;06;07;17
Unknown
Like what were you influencing back then and how is that different now? That's a great question. And I think maybe a lot of younger audiences might benefit from this. Answer is, I think when you're younger and you have all the time in the world and you want to explore everything which you should, you absolutely should. I think sometimes life can feel a bit less purpose driven.

00;06;07;19 - 00;06;46;25
Unknown
And so you try things and some things stick and then some things don't. And I think that is totally okay. And it's all part of growing up. We only learn from our mistakes and we only learn from trying and failing and trying and succeeding. I think when you get to a place where you are much more intentional about your life and you understand that maybe your purpose is about acts of service or even if it's about for a lot of people, it is about money at the end of the day, and as ugly of a word as it is, I feel like people should be honest about that.

00;06;46;27 - 00;07;17;26
Unknown
They're without a doubt. I feel like I've met all kinds of people, and for a lot of people, it is about the fame, or it's about the money, and much less so. It's about the act of service. There's nothing wrong with that. I think if you can admit that to yourself, like power to you. But I definitely think as I'm getting a bit older and I'm and I've gone through different experiences, I'm learning what motivates me to want to do something like this.

00;07;17;29 - 00;07;43;11
Unknown
The mistakes that I've made and the lessons that I've learned to. People need to be making those same mistakes. Probably not like I wish I had. And and you know what? I am so thankful that I did have some older female friends in my life who I did get to watch their path and some of the mistakes that they made and some of the incredible opportunities that they've had and things that they've achieved in their life.

00;07;43;14 - 00;08;07;04
Unknown
And I'm so thankful that I got to have such a broad perspective, and it would be incredible to be able to influence others, to maybe help them sharpen their focus in ways that I didn't have in my 20s, or maybe lead them off paths that those of us in our 30s have walked down and realize maybe that wasn't the right path to take.

00;08;07;06 - 00;08;32;08
Unknown
I don't know if that relates or resonates with you. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yeah. Just, like you said, in your early 20s, mid 20s, you just out there doing without really thinking about any consequence or purpose. So yeah, I just always wonder whether I would listen, like, if I could go back in time and give my 25 year old self some advice.

00;08;32;11 - 00;08;58;08
Unknown
Would that 25 year old Jack actually listen to me? Or would you just shut up old dude. Yeah. What. Well that's a great point. So yeah if you had to I guess I don't know. It's hard because I'm trying to do it now, but, but how would you communicate to that younger version of yourself that's going through that light period of just out there doing like, how would you sharpen that focus for that person?

00;08;58;10 - 00;09;23;02
Unknown
I think you hit the nail on the head. Where would I listen is the thing. And I think that's a great question. And you can see me pondering on this, right? Like, why would I actually listen? I think that is a great point. I think you reach a point at least I did in my late 20s where I realized, hey, maybe I don't know it all, and probably a lot of people could relate to that.

00;09;23;02 - 00;09;41;09
Unknown
You get over, not fully over, but you get into the place where you're like, let me park my ego aside for a second and let me let me hear and absorb a bit more. Let me observe a bit more. And I went through that phase where all I wanted to do was observe in my public from 2526 onwards.

00;09;41;11 - 00;10;08;11
Unknown
I just wanted to observe, to absorb everything that I possibly could. And it was so transformational. And I think I got so much out of the podcasts of the world at that time. And like some of them now, are the leading podcasters in the world. And I always think back to, wow, if I hadn't just stumbled onto these pods, I wonder where my life would be right now.

00;10;08;18 - 00;10;31;15
Unknown
So as much as I think, oh, would I listen to myself? Probably not. But did I listen? The plethora of these other resources who had taken steps ahead of me, who had built a life that I couldn't foresee for myself or had accomplished, certain goals that I want to accomplish? Would I listen? Hell, yeah. Did I listen?

00;10;31;17 - 00;10;34;16
Unknown
So I think that in itself is very motivating. No.

00;10;34;28 - 00;10;57;12
Unknown
If you had a room of 100 people sitting there. You're up on stage. What would you say to. Jack? These question. I needed, like, a like a rehearsal. You're coming hard with these questions. If I was in a room, it's all going to come back to starting a podcast and how to think about it and all that sort of stuff.

00;10;57;12 - 00;11;12;20
Unknown
So I assume because you've got some questions about starting a podcast. So all my questions to you are going to come back around. Okay. So you've got 100 people there. What are you going to say.

00;11;12;22 - 00;11;41;18
Unknown
Take this with a grain of salt and always do what intuitively feels right to you, because no one else will know where you are in life and the experiences that you have lived. Regardless of how much conviction someone can come across as having as to how you should live your life. Always think back and really feel intuitively what is right for you.

00;11;41;21 - 00;12;11;00
Unknown
And I think you know, like you said, we do life without stopping to think about life. To 100 people in a room. I would say don't sweat the small stuff. As cheesy as that sounds, you're not going to remember why you are annoyed for two days in ten years time, right? You're not going to remember those small moments of panic, of stress, of worry.

00;12;11;02 - 00;12;40;27
Unknown
Like there is a whole life ahead of you to live. And if you keep focusing on these little moments of stress and panic and worry, then you're missing the point. Like you're entirely missing the point that in life we are just collecting data and we are collecting moments, fleeting moments of joy. Be present in those fleeting moments of joy, and learn from those moments of I don't like to use the word negativity.

00;12;40;27 - 00;13;04;00
Unknown
So maybe the the less joyful moments sit in those feelings. And that is a whole different podcast on the topic. Sit those feelings. What are you learning from those feelings and why are you running from them? And then what a car, right? Life is too short to be focused on the plethora of millions of reasons why we should focus on this isn't great.

00;13;04;00 - 00;13;26;11
Unknown
And today I feel awful and this isn't going my way. But what about all the incredible things like the glass half full? Like, what if we accomplish this? What if we meet this person like so, 100% agree. Yeah. And that's like, you never like, you're probably angry at something last week that you kind of remember what you angry at.

00;13;26;12 - 00;13;49;21
Unknown
Now, if you just remember being angry, kind of remember what caused it to be angry. But in those times it feels very like you feel like like it matters a lot. So for you, how do you get over those little moments. I don't know if I'm the best person to be giving advice on that. So this is purely my opinion at this point.

00;13;49;21 - 00;14;11;18
Unknown
That's why I okay. Well I don't know if you saw two days ago I had a complete meltdown. Did you. Yeah. Yeah. I had a complete meltdown. That was a big feelings moment for me. And I'm using, like, I'm going through a process of healing, of learning about myself. At how old am I? Not 31. I forget, like, you get so old that you think you stop counting off.

00;14;11;19 - 00;14;36;26
Unknown
Yeah, you start counting out of 30. And I'm going through this process of learning with my therapist about, you know, what feelings are, how they impact you. And I'm sure a lot of people maybe, you know, and age range will go through this, and you'd be lucky to go through it, because if you don't go through it now, you're just kicking the can down for later.

00;14;36;28 - 00;14;57;04
Unknown
And so a couple days ago, you had your breakdown, had you come back from that. Do you come back from that? I again, what's your process? I guess my process. Not not saying that, I mean, but my therapist and I are currently working through a building a toolkit and a repertoire that is bigger than what my current process is.

00;14;57;06 - 00;15;21;05
Unknown
I have a tendency to really be able to shrug off the small stuff, to be resilient, mentally, emotionally, to just it's fine. It doesn't bother me. I can intellectualize my way through any problem logically. That's what I do. That's what I've been conditioned to do my whole life. It's why I work in the industry that I work in.

00;15;21;07 - 00;15;53;01
Unknown
It works from a professional and potentially even interpersonal perspective. But when you're so disconnected from your feelings and you can compartmentalize what you think from what you feel, is that healthy? There's not a yes or no. Let's just pack it up. There are pros and cons to everything. Yeah. So what I do, I'm great at. You can say anything about me.

00;15;53;03 - 00;16;13;04
Unknown
You can assume anything about me. Does it bother me? No. But if I sit there long enough in my feelings as my therapist is teaching me to. Does it bother me? Yeah. And I'm letting. It's okay. I don't need to run from it. I don't need to intellectualize my way through it. I don't need to do wild workouts.

00;16;13;04 - 00;16;44;04
Unknown
I don't need to set unattainable goals for myself I like, I don't need. It's great. Like, it's great that I do those things. Do I need to continuously do that to prove myself? No. And that's okay too. And that's the process that I'm learning to go through at the moment. Yeah, I, I think that's again, you say it's just your process, but it's good for people to hear because everybody's so afraid of their emotions and feeling those emotions.

00;16;44;06 - 00;17;03;21
Unknown
And as soon as we start feeling something you jump on Instagram or TikTok and just ignore those and feel your emotions with something else or distract it. But like you said, you just end up kicking the can down the road till eventually somebody's face it. Yeah, you go to face it or it just blows up in your face.

00;17;03;24 - 00;17;30;05
Unknown
So two days ago I had my meltdown last two days which is a long time like to be in a place of utter anxiety and panic over something that really doesn't really matter all that much. How do you work through it. I mean, the bigger picture in life is important. I think if you have a purpose and you understand your goals, and when you're where you're going, you recognize that the ups and downs are all part of it.

00;17;30;08 - 00;18;00;17
Unknown
Setting through it is really, really hard. You sit through it, and if you absolutely have to, you use the tools in your toolkit that you know, which mine currently are going for runs, playing tennis, like all things that we think are healthy. But I think if they're the only tools you use to exert your stress or anxiety or whatever it is, and that might, you know, you might want to reflect on that.

00;18;00;19 - 00;18;26;26
Unknown
But I think building up resilience, I if I could tell my 20 year old self, what's the one skill you should work on in the next, I don't know, ten years is building up your resilience emotionally, mentally, physically, physiologically. Yeah. How for me or how for people in general? Because we're all different. Yeah. For you have me.

00;18;26;29 - 00;18;57;29
Unknown
Well. For me, I really needed to prove to myself that I could be who I wanted, do what I wanted, have control over myself for whatever reasons. Those are unique for me. So it won't apply to everyone. And I think over time, you realize, hey, you stack up all these little habits, these little goals of proving to yourself, I can do this.

00;18;58;01 - 00;19;09;27
Unknown
I don't need anyone else to tell me or anyone else is validation to prove that I can do this. Like I've got this. Like, I went from.

00;19;09;29 - 00;19;39;23
Unknown
Really needing validation. External validation. Probably why I became an influencer at 20. Not really like putting all the dots together, but you get all of this external validation and then you learn, hey, like, I've got this, I'll do little things like I'll, I'll go run a marathon, I'll go do 100 sessions of Barry's classes, I'll start a whole new career that I never thought I could attempt.

00;19;39;28 - 00;20;06;21
Unknown
I never thought I'd be successful at. And then you start to prove to yourself, hey, like I've got me, I've got myself. And granted, there are going to be moments where you start to question yourself again, but then you remind yourself of your track record. I think that's super, super important. Just reminding yourself it's two steps forward, five steps forward, but also a step back every so often is okay, and you don't have to beat yourself up.

00;20;06;28 - 00;20;30;01
Unknown
And you don't have to live in this cycle or habit loop of shame and guilt and worry. Are you the big loaded questions, Jack. Yeah. And I like how it always like a lot of the time it comes back to moving your body. Like I just think people underestimate just going out and moving your body.

00;20;30;01 - 00;20;55;13
Unknown
Whether it's a walk playing tennis smash in a class helps you process things. Think about things, burn off energy less with stuff. So all right so you reached out. You wanted to learn how to podcast. Yes. And this episode I figured you want to learn how to podcast. And I said to you before this, I don't know what it is at the moment, but a lot of people want to start podcasting.

00;20;55;16 - 00;21;18;22
Unknown
So I figured it'd be a good idea to get you on to a podcast about learning how to podcast. And all the questions I just asked. I think everybody out there listening should ponder, like, you know what? What do you think about when you think about influencing? Because you are if you're starting a podcast, are you going to be influencing people?

00;21;18;25 - 00;21;40;11
Unknown
And I think it's very important to have that purpose and that why and what you're trying to influence behind you when you start thinking about talking to anybody, whether it's one person or 100 people in the room. You've got to have that purpose and like, understand what you're trying to influence before you get started. So I appreciate you.

00;21;40;18 - 00;22;11;15
Unknown
Your answers. They are they were loaded. But again, it's these things you need to think about because this isn't easy podcasting. Sometimes you'll do it and you feel like there's one person in the room, and sometimes you feel like there's a thousand people in the room. And when there's only that one person, it's hard to continue. But you've got to act like there's a thousand people listening, because at the end of the day, you don't know, like, yeah, you get all the stats and all that sort of stuff, but you don't know how many people are actually listening, although they are applying through the video.

00;22;11;17 - 00;22;40;09
Unknown
Are they listening and what are they listening to? You know, that's a great point. And it does. And this goes back to how I mentioned earlier. Sometimes it's very clear the intentions of why people do certain things. And I think it's something, at least for me. I think it's so important that if you have a certain intention of coming from a place of being of service, doesn't matter if it's a million like, sure, it's great if it's a million people.

00;22;40;11 - 00;23;02;01
Unknown
But if you are changing one life, is that any less meaningful? Definitely not. And not I. I've said this in the past like I do this to change the world, but that world is up to one person. So if you change one person's view of that world, you've changed the world. So one person does matter. I love that.

00;23;02;03 - 00;23;30;00
Unknown
You got questions there? I do. All right. So I mean we briefly discussed this a little bit earlier. But to put it formally what motivated you to start to put yourself out there. I think like you I loved podcasts. So I found podcasting I guess you a time when I felt lost and I started listening podcasts and I was like, oh, this is amazing.

00;23;30;00 - 00;24;01;07
Unknown
I can listen to all these well knowledge. I just well-rounded people from around the world. And I can be in the same room with them as am and listen and learn and develop myself. So I appreciated that a lot. So when Covid hit and you know, a pretty much every fitness person was almost forced to go online. Anyway, I started the podcast off as just a way to stay connected to people, but also, you know, everybody's got questions about health and fitness.

00;24;01;07 - 00;24;22;11
Unknown
So started off, you know, you go to question about sleep, talk about sleep for half an hour. So I went a client comes on and they're like, oh, I'm struggling with my sleep. I can say, here's everything you need to know. I listen to this episode about sleep and I just more I did it more. I found I like to talk to people, learn about people, enjoy conversations.

00;24;22;13 - 00;24;55;11
Unknown
So yeah, I think it started off as a way to pay back to podcasting. And then it's continued as a love for podcasting. That's a that's a great response. How much of what you do is about the connection with other humans. Because obviously you know there is the technical side which is you educating others on health, on wellbeing whether that's physically or mentally or emotionally.

00;24;55;13 - 00;25;23;26
Unknown
How much of the connection means a lot to you? Maybe that's not the way to water. How impactful is the connection part of it as, as opposed to or in addition to the education part of it? Yeah, I think it comes back down to that. What what we're talking about for like, is anybody listening like that connection is hard when you feel like no one's listening.

00;25;23;28 - 00;25;47;17
Unknown
So that's when you fall back on like here's a topic that people are struggling with that's going to connect me with more people. So it's not always like that. Connection is not always there. So you've got to just work with what you got. Like there's some days where I don't want to do this at all, like so I try and find that connection in those, you know, ways to help people.

00;25;47;20 - 00;26;16;25
Unknown
So again it comes back to you know what am I influencing. That almost sounds like the connection with yourself as, as opposed to the connection with others which that's an interesting perspective because I suppose from as someone who has never delved into this realm, you think about the connection that you have with, say, your clients or the people that you're connecting with online, the lives you're transforming.

00;26;16;27 - 00;26;45;25
Unknown
And then you think about the connection with yourself, which is what keeps you motivated to do this. Right. So in terms of the connection that you have or that you're fostering with other people, like what are some of the areas that have caught you by surprise, like how people caught you by surprise. What is something that has caught you by surprise that you didn't anticipate to have through making these connections?

00;26;45;28 - 00;27;11;07
Unknown
Friends, as basic as that is. Yeah. But when people listen to the podcast you don't know they're listening. So again you put this out there. You hope people listen. And then when somebody is listening and they get to know you and then they're like oh yeah I listen to this and and they actually listen. So you can have a conversation about a conversation you've already had.

00;27;11;09 - 00;27;57;18
Unknown
That, that gives you the connection to people. I don't know if that sort of answering your question, but yeah. Is it almost, it almost feels like to me that it attracts people who might share a same view or perspective on life, and that might feel a bit more comforting than because, you know, this and this might be be this might be a bit deep for talking about how is on a podcast, but it almost feels like the lack of deep connection we have with other human beings, because a lot of the times our interpersonal relationships do feel transient these days it's a lack on social media.

00;27;57;18 - 00;28;29;02
Unknown
It's a quick scroll of TikTok. I don't use TikTok, so I don't know if you scroll TikTok on, but it is very transient and it's very surface level. Do you feel that through this process, you've been able to connect with people that you might have a deeper understanding of? Yeah, definitely. As people, humans, we rely on storytelling. But like you said, storytelling has almost stopped because of social media or all that sort of stuff.

00;28;29;02 - 00;29;01;12
Unknown
And I think people should be sharing their stories. So whether I'm trying to share a story about sleep or you know, how to create purpose in life or chase of passion or whatever it is, telling a story matters. And the more people are doing it, the more people share their stories. So like, again. Humans have survived for so long because, you know, back in the day, in the hunter gatherer days, the guys that go out hunting that learned something come back and tell a story about that hunt.

00;29;01;14 - 00;29;25;19
Unknown
So the next time they do it, they know what or what not to do. So then like us talking about influencing, starting a podcast, all that sort of stuff like we're just talking about it, but also we're talking about our experience of going out there and doing it, bringing it back. And then other people can learn from it and then go and try it themselves, and then they go and do it, have their stories and continue that way.

00;29;25;21 - 00;29;57;26
Unknown
So, I don't even know if I answered your question right. I think what you are sharing with me is absolutely the incredible side of connection, and having social media as a tool. I'm interested to hear your perspective on how sometimes we can silo ourselves, because you can connect with a an incredible group of human beings and share the same mindset and perspective.

00;29;57;29 - 00;30;26;28
Unknown
But there's also a healthy balance between the echo chamber of just the same opinions over and over again. How have you found that that's impacted your beliefs? Yeah, and I'm very wary of that, especially within the health fitness industry, because like, trends are very powerful and you can jump on trends and get caught up in that trend or echo chamber and not really understand, like ignore everything else.

00;30;26;28 - 00;31;03;21
Unknown
So I've been doing this long enough to try and be mindful of all that. I'm definitely not perfect at it, but do you have an example that you feel comfortable to share and have learned from? I. It's a good question. I'll let you sit on that. Yeah. Yeah, I'll. I'll come back to that. Okay. What did you find challenging when you first delved into the realm of learning to start a podcast or a YouTube channel?

00;31;03;23 - 00;31;29;29
Unknown
And what do you find challenging now? Having done it for about two years now. Right. I think if you the hardest thing is just starting. I love the whole business side of things. I really enjoy the numbers, the growth, the technical side of things. I love technology so I love cameras, microphones, all that sort of stuff. So all that sort of stuff was good for me.

00;31;30;02 - 00;31;47;29
Unknown
It was definitely hard. Like you know when you start out you don't know what you do, what you're doing. You know, you do some episodes and they absolutely shit, but you sound terrible, but you think you're giving good information and it just ends up being terrible. But I think it's just a matter of just doing it and then seeing what happens.

00;31;47;29 - 00;32;06;16
Unknown
Because again, coming back to maybe that other question, what do you think is good? Doesn't necessarily mean everybody else thinks it good. So you might do a shoot episode, but it hits everybody else just perfectly. So I think that's hard to learn because

00;32;06;16 - 00;32;11;11
Unknown
a lot of us like go for perfection and it needs to be perfect.

00;32;11;14 - 00;32;35;10
Unknown
I was actually having a conversation about this with another person, reached out about podcasting. And she's like, I need to do this, this and this. And I'm like, no, you just need to stop. You just need the MVP. You just minimum viable product. Exactly. Put it out there. Exactly. Get some AB testing. Yep. And but that in itself is the hard part of letting go of that perfection and just putting out content.

00;32;35;13 - 00;32;58;03
Unknown
Not every episode is going to be great. And what I'm up to. This will be 230 this episode, and I feel like it's I'm still at episode one, but, so I still feel like every episode I'm learning. Yeah, I'm trying to get better. As long as you're trying to improve on the last episode. But it's going to get better.

00;32;58;05 - 00;33;20;05
Unknown
Like you said, you might take ten steps forwards, but every now and then you can take 1 or 2 back. So that's in every aspect of life, including podcasting. So it's just a matter of just putting it out there and doing it. And I think that's been the hardest lesson to just do that without having to be perfect or.

00;33;20;07 - 00;33;43;08
Unknown
But it needs to be what exactly what I thought the episode was going to be like. So like, this episode was meant to be all about podcasting. But we've been talking about a lot more deeper things because I think that's more beneficial. But it's definitely not how I thought these podcasts go, but I think it's still going to be vibing with everybody if everybody's still here listening.

00;33;43;10 - 00;34;11;07
Unknown
So again it's just letting go of that perfection and just moving forward and like after 230 episodes, I'm very good at just saying, hey, that was a conversation. Put it out there, see what people think. Do you have a gut feeling of when you feel like something is going to be well-received all the time, but then sometimes you put it out there and then like, it's not so.

00;34;11;10 - 00;34;39;00
Unknown
But I think, again, that's the hard part of letting go of that expectation and that gut feeling and just doing the best you can and putting it out there. Because when you start holding on to that and going, oh, that was the best episode, and you put it out there and there's crickets. Yeah. But then like, sometimes an episode will get a bunch of views or a lot hundreds of listens, downloads, whatever you want to call it.

00;34;39;02 - 00;34;56;20
Unknown
But I hear nothing back. But then others will get minimal, but I'll hear a lot back. So again, and that's just the lessons you learn over time of just put it out there and say what happens? You see, what I'm hearing is.

00;34;56;23 - 00;35;28;13
Unknown
When there's an ego attached. This this role might present itself to be challenging to people who do have an ego attached to it. And maybe the lesson that you have learned is that let's let's put the ego aside. Yeah, maybe this has been something that I've been thinking about for myself, like over the last couple of months. I think ego is good but just put in the right.

00;35;28;15 - 00;35;44;07
Unknown
Using that energy in the right way. Like my ego is I want to put an episode out every week like no one's going to stop me. Like I want to be the best I possibly can and this is what I want to do. And that is my ego talking like, I want this to be the best fucking podcast ever.

00;35;44;10 - 00;36;05;13
Unknown
And that comes from a place of positivity. Yeah, yeah. So where if you use that ego to be better than the other podcaster out there and you're trying to get better numbers than him, then that might not be the best direction for that ego. So I think understanding yourself and making sure that you're pointing that ego in the right direction is powerful.

00;36;05;14 - 00;36;36;25
Unknown
But again, it's probably something you get to learn over time. And I think for for a lot of people out there are thinking about starting a podcast, myself included. Can you describe the feelings that you felt when you first started to recognize, hey, this feels like rejection. The content that I'm putting so much effort into feels like it's not being received as opposed to now 230 30 episodes later.

00;36;37;02 - 00;37;00;25
Unknown
How you feel now? Yeah, I think that contrast would be really beneficial for people who have never been in this world before. Yeah. Looking back again, if I could give that check that first started the podcast advice, just no one's listening so no one cares. Like it's going to take at least 50 episodes for people to start actually paying attention and listening.

00;37;00;27 - 00;37;22;21
Unknown
So that's good and bad. Like it's a pal, because you can stuff it up a lot and it doesn't matter. But in the time it feels shit because you're putting out episodes like your first ten episodes, no one's going to listen to you and you do feel rejected. But again, it's just something again. What are you coming back like that question like, what is an influencer?

00;37;22;21 - 00;37;49;11
Unknown
What are you influencing? And like it sucks that no one's listening, but it's that time that where you can get better at influencing. So you've just got to stick with it and just say, I'm going to put an episode out every week, once a month, whatever's feasible for you, like you and everybody listening, like what's achievable for you to do, and just say, that's what I'm going to do.

00;37;49;14 - 00;38;10;03
Unknown
Just like working out, like if you have a certain goal or you want to be healthy, you know, you need to work out certain amount of times, you need to do certain amount of steps, you need to drink water. So that's just what you go and do. It's no different to podcasting to start with. You're not going to see the result on the day or the next hundred days or even a year later.

00;38;10;08 - 00;38;33;20
Unknown
Yeah, but yeah, you'd like to hope so. So yeah, all I'd say is just if you're if you want to start, just start and just be mindful of, you know, what is actual feasible because people will go out all excited and people do this with workouts as well. Oops, sorry, probably blocking that camera. But when somebody sign up to a gym, they're really excited.

00;38;33;20 - 00;38;53;18
Unknown
They go in five days a week, absolutely go hard. And then they can't move because their body so sore. And it's that's not feasible. So you're better off just going in every second day or every third day. Figure out what's feasible for you and then start with that. And there's been periods, where I've tried to do three shows a week.

00;38;53;21 - 00;39;15;18
Unknown
And it's just too much. I can't do it. I try to because I don't make money from this like so. I can't spend all my time and effort into this because you know, I need to leave and make money. So three was too much. And then I'm like oh two maybe and even two it's too much. But I know one a week I can do, I can get that done, I can make the reels.

00;39;15;20 - 00;39;37;08
Unknown
But again, that's only because I've been doing it for so long and the editing is really quick for me now. The doing the whole process of pump it out through social media, that's all quick for me now. So I've just learned over that time to make it fast, easy. But I know one two weeks. Forgive me. How long did it take you to kind of figure out your groove?

00;39;37;08 - 00;39;58;06
Unknown
And at what point do you say to yourself, okay, I'm trying this. I have tried this for an X amount of time. Let's pivot because I think a lot of people and maybe this goes back to perfection, is we keep trying and trying and trying looking for a different outcome. But maybe the issue is not for the lack of trying.

00;39;58;12 - 00;40;26;20
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah, it's a good question. Real good. And I don't know, I still struggle with that. Like is this actually working? Do I need to change direction? I think in regards to podcasting, I'd say try not to make too much like everybody talks about naysayers. And this is probably just me a lesson from meeting and back. But there's only so many times you can talk about fat loss.

00;40;26;23 - 00;40;53;10
Unknown
But the principles for fat loss a very simple like exercise more, eat less. There's obviously a few caveats in there that you need to work on individually, but the principles are the same. So there's only so many podcasts I can do about that. And health and fitness and that sort of stuff. So that's why I'm branching out a lot more recently, getting a lot more guests on different opinions, all that sort of stuff because like, you can get stuck, especially if you niche.

00;40;53;13 - 00;41;12;12
Unknown
And I feel like a lot of people will niche, and it might be a good place to start if you're starting off with your podcast, if you have a nation you know a lot about this one subject, you can start there, but don't be tied to it because you're going to get bored. And if you're bored with the subjects, the listeners are going to know that and feel that.

00;41;12;14 - 00;41;35;15
Unknown
So I feel like when you're bored, you know it's time to pivot. That's a great point. And on the point of I suppose content. Do you have a strategy for figuring out the content that you want to put out and the content that's trending and what people want to see. Yeah. So I'm terrible at trends and all that sort of stuff.

00;41;35;17 - 00;41;53;17
Unknown
I know you can get a lot further and I get a lot of people reaching out to me because like, my numbers aren't the biggest on YouTube and all that sort of stuff. So people look, I can help you find these trends and we can do videos about this. Really? Yeah. But you can we delve into that?

00;41;53;17 - 00;42;24;27
Unknown
I'm interested. Yeah. So but again, it comes back to like, what do I want to influence and what do I want to talk about? And who do I want to talk to and who do I want to push that message out to. And if I was to follow the trends, the numbers, like some episodes, really hit well because we talk about certain subjects like this probably will go well because I can put social media in the title and or had a podcast in the title, so it's going to move well.

00;42;25;02 - 00;42;49;23
Unknown
A lot of people are going to listen, but if I was to do that every single week. I get bored, becomes repetitive. So yes you can jump on the trends but then like again what are you influencing. Are you trying to influence that trend or a like I don't really care about trends. Like I care about people living healthy happy lives and that isn't a trend.

00;42;49;25 - 00;43;08;24
Unknown
So I can't really jump on any. But you can to get more views, more subscribers, all that sort of stuff. So it I think it just comes down to what your goal is and what you're influencing. So if you want to do that, then go for it. But that's just not what I do. Thank you for that perspective.

00;43;09;04 - 00;43;38;07
Unknown
I think we've discussed the creative side of things like the what kind of content you want to put out there. From a technical and social perspective. What have you found surprising and good or bad or less good ways. And what have you found challenging? Technical audio matters like this is a podcast, so it's audio. Yeah. Put it on YouTube.

00;43;38;07 - 00;44;00;24
Unknown
But at the end of the day, audio matters. So, focus on the audio. We spoke about this when we first come into this room. This room is, acoustic pleasing. So when I clap, there's no echo. Which means it's good for podcasting or good for audio. So there's no reverb bouncing around. So the microphones pick it up.

00;44;00;24 - 00;44;18;13
Unknown
Well but again in saying that when you're first starting out, no one's listening. So don't stress about like that reminder this set up is, you know, a lot of money. And I wouldn't recommend people go and start with a lot of money because you might get ten episodes. You can get this shit. I don't want to do it.

00;44;18;13 - 00;44;43;12
Unknown
So start with something cheap. I started off with a $100 microphone, blew up. I think it was called off Amazon and recording on my phone and that's all we need to start with. I find the visual challenging, like trying to set up the right camera angles. I again, it sucks when I get a good guess on and off the camera angles, just not right.

00;44;43;14 - 00;45;10;02
Unknown
And then it doesn't really hit with the reels on social media. Oh. So okay. Yeah. So I find that hard. Can you elaborate on that a bit further for those of us who. Yeah. So really understand I've got this I got my phone set up on new recording. So it's looks good. Looks good for YouTube. But when I go to chop that for reels and stuff like that, it might not turn up that well.

00;45;10;05 - 00;45;32;13
Unknown
And like, it's hard because again, got to let go of that perfection like what you're talking about. It's really good in the clip, but it might not look that well. So I find that hard and like, this is where CRE would come in handy because like, big podcasters will have people, like, doing all that sort of stuff.

00;45;32;19 - 00;45;55;13
Unknown
Production. Yeah. But at the moment, like, I'm worrying about like, is this still recording? Is that still recording? That's not recording. This is recording like and still trying to have the conversation. So that's hard. So a lot of the time I just try and set it up the best I can, let go of the perfection and just have a good conversation because I know the audio is always going to be there because this is a good audio setup.

00;45;55;16 - 00;46;05;17
Unknown
So yeah, things to consider. On that note, do you want to check every thing and take a pause and check everything? No, no we're good, we're good. Okay.

00;46;05;17 - 00;46;30;02
Unknown
what is something. And we've actually discussed quite a few a few topics now. But what is something top of mind that people who aren't familiar to this world or being an influence, or a podcaster, or just being front facing, what's something unexpected that you'd like to share?

00;46;30;05 - 00;46;42;17
Unknown
And it might not even be related to like the technical or the content side of it. It's just something that caught you off guard.

00;46;42;20 - 00;47;11;01
Unknown
I think we spoke about this when we're talking about, going out on dates and that sort of stuff, like it puts a mirror up to you, but it's very confronting, looking at yourself in the butt, looking back over and editing, listening, all that sort of stuff. So it does put a mirror up to yourself, because you're putting yourself out there and you're always worried about all that sort of, you know, what are people thinking and all that sort of stuff.

00;47;11;03 - 00;47;36;04
Unknown
But again, over time it gives you that sense of like, you just let go of that and it gives you that sense of it doesn't matter. Like, and what I didn't expect at the start of this whole podcasting journey now, but it's just created me like it's given me. It'll say, this more belief in myself, if that makes sense.

00;47;36;04 - 00;47;57;01
Unknown
Let but just more in the sense of like all these little things of like me not saying the right words or may not looking right or, you know, my hair's at all that sort of stuff like it just because that all that stuff doesn't matter. You have more confidence. The thousand little flaws that we only see in ourselves because we're our own worst critic.

00;47;57;01 - 00;48;23;01
Unknown
Yeah. So that's probably be probably the biggest thing. Reflecting over all the episodes I've done is like just that self-confidence I've got from this. Like, I wouldn't have thought that that would be a byproduct of doing podcasts. So that's probably one thing that's incredible to hear. In terms of and you're right, I think whenever we try something new in life, it becomes a mirror held up to us.

00;48;23;07 - 00;48;57;03
Unknown
And you either run away from it or you confront it and you become a version of yourself that you never anticipated. And I think when you let go of that fear of rejection or shame or guilt, you're opening a path of holistic growth, of just being fearless. I think the word being fearless is so important when it comes to anything front facing, because everything, I mean, so we are confronted in life with so many scary things.

00;48;57;10 - 00;49;25;07
Unknown
But to put yourself out there, to constantly be critiques almost. And you know what I want to add, I think we think will constantly be critiqued because this time around, I'm embracing pushing myself on a public platform in a very different way to say in the past. And you know what? I've noticed? People want to support you. People are incredible.

00;49;25;10 - 00;49;56;05
Unknown
And I think when you embrace life with a certain vibration or energy or frequency or whatever we term, you want to label it. That is what the universe will attract back to you. And I found this experience to be so fulfilling and wholesome, because it really has shown me how incredible human beings can be. And I think that also comes down to the perspective and the lens that you want to see others in.

00;49;56;08 - 00;50;18;15
Unknown
But it can also show you the bad side of humanity as well. But that's also good luck. I think you just got to look at it from that lens of, you know, things are awesome, although there's bad people out there, bad stuff out there, things like it's still awesome. And so you can sort of just accept those bad things for those bad things as well.

00;50;18;17 - 00;50;50;16
Unknown
How if someone had to ask your advice on how you just accept those bad things for what they are, what would you say to them? No. It's easier said than done. I think, like again, probably the first couple of questions asks you. It's just more about just. Sitting in it, accepting it, probably just taking a breath and not reacting would probably be my answer.

00;50;50;19 - 00;51;16;18
Unknown
But probably another way. Like trying to improve my weight, my communication skills, my interviewing skills is not being reactionary. Like if you say something that I completely disagree with, it doesn't mean it's wrong and if I react at you like it's going to stop you from talking and speaking your mind. So I guess just a byproduct of, again, podcasting and learning how to talk and talk to people is just not being reactive.

00;51;16;18 - 00;51;54;12
Unknown
And just because you hear something bad and something you disagree with doesn't mean you have to react to it. You can sit here, listen, accept, and just take a breath. And if you feel like you need to say something, say something. But you don't have to. Did you find throughout this process of interviewing other people, meeting and being exposed to all kinds of people that you've learned to be more accepting and open and almost have a bit more empathy, that human beings, we're all just trying our best.

00;51;54;15 - 00;52;17;26
Unknown
Yeah, I think that may have come from what I do like pitying as well, because people come to you in a very vulnerable state wanting to improve themselves. As hard to say I need help to do that. So I think my acceptance of all that probably comes from that side of things. But it obviously definitely helps with the podcasting.

00;52;17;28 - 00;52;40;07
Unknown
So I'd say PTEN is almost like a non mocked up version of a podcasting session. But you're working out and I did like I do I try and do that every now and then with certain people. I do mocked up work out because different things come out like put a mark like Mark with me. Mark on the guest to work out.

00;52;40;10 - 00;52;51;26
Unknown
Just different things come up. You think about different things because you aren't moving your body and doing different things. So. So also a good way to communicate. So I think it probably comes more from that sort of thing.

00;52;51;26 - 00;53;04;26
Unknown
All right, so, Jack, if you're starting from scratch in 2025, what would you do differently? That's a good question.

00;53;04;29 - 00;53;26;20
Unknown
Jeez. So it's hard because, like, if I went back, I would I would have invested in better microphones straight away. Even if I said not to do that. Okay, that's good to know. But I knew this, that this is what I was going to do. Like I was going to put out an episode every week for 50 weeks, like 50 episodes, no matter what.

00;53;26;22 - 00;53;48;06
Unknown
So I feel like I would have learned a lot more, a lot faster if I had better equipment. Instead of starting with the cheap one, learning how that works, and then upgrading to that. But again, I started this three years ago and like equipment has changed a lot. Cameras have changed a lot. So it's a lot easier to do it now.

00;53;48;09 - 00;54;12;01
Unknown
But it's a lot cheaper at like I guess the barrier to entry is a lot easier now with better equipment. I would have got more guests on sooner as well. So for the probably the I did get guests on to start with, but I was very intimidated to ask people to come on to the show because why I wasn't and what changed?

00;54;12;04 - 00;54;36;03
Unknown
Confidence, like my ability to I just didn't believe in my abilities and have a conversation like thinking back, I think the first guest I had was James. Doctor James, thanks for coming on all those episodes ago. And I had to rerecord it because I was so bad. All right. And I think that set me back a little bit.

00;54;36;03 - 00;54;53;11
Unknown
And again, may be trying to be holding on to that perfection. I'm like, oh, I've just got to talk more to get better at it. And then I'll get a guest on when I can talk better. But and a lot of us got stuck in that loop. Yeah. But I should have just let go of that. I'm like okay that was a bad interview on my behalf.

00;54;53;11 - 00;55;13;22
Unknown
James is great. He had a lot of good stories but I just did a very bad job at it. I should have just got over that sooner and got the next guest on, instead of waiting ten episodes of me just talking to the camera, not getting any better at interviewing me, thinking me thinking that maybe talking to the camera is better, improving myself.

00;55;13;22 - 00;55;35;10
Unknown
But I should just got a guest on sooner. So you say, ripping the bandaid on? Yeah. So like like comes back to what I said before, just let go of perfection and just get more like or whatever you're trying to podcast about. Just do more of it sooner. So if I could go back and change things I would have got more guests on sooner.

00;55;35;12 - 00;56;04;17
Unknown
But again, it was just a confidence thing. Unfortunately that just happens with time. Are there ways say someone is not ready to rip that bandaid off for whatever reason and there's no judgment because we're all just humans and we're all dealing with our own lived experiences. What are some little hacks to improve that confidence in the interim? Talk to people.

00;56;04;19 - 00;56;24;29
Unknown
Whether you in the lifts, public transport, walking down the street, getting a coffee in the cafe, you order a coffee. Don't just say I'll have a long black say, oh, hey, how you got on today? Try and spark. But even if it's a 22nd conversation, ten second, just try to create those little conversations. And sometimes it's daunting.

00;56;24;29 - 00;56;50;05
Unknown
Just say to a random person, how should I go? It is. But those little things will help you build confidence in getting a guest in and making them feel welcome. Enough to, you know, relax and give a good conversation. But if you're if you're the podcaster, the interviewer, and you're nervous straight away, the guest is nervous, you can feel the energy.

00;56;50;05 - 00;57;14;17
Unknown
Yeah. So again, as woo woo as it sounds, your energy you're giving off, they'll pick up on. So the more you can just practice little conversations here and there with random strangers. I think that goes a long way. And I think, what do you have to lose exactly? Like if you're in a coffee shop standing next to somebody and they just go, oh, and rant at you, it doesn't matter.

00;57;14;17 - 00;57;44;21
Unknown
You never get to see him again. But you tried so yeah. And I think what's interesting is, you know, as I'm going through and we discussed this briefly before, is interpersonal relationships skills. It permeates throughout all facets of our life, whether that is having a conversation with a stranger or making friends with colleagues, or the world of dating where it is probably the most daunting.

00;57;44;23 - 00;58;14;19
Unknown
What do you have to lose? And I think that's where so many of us get stuck, is we overthink these little fleeting moments. And and I don't know if it's a female thing. We overthink and we over analyze and the 1000 outcomes instead of just saying, hey and taking it from the. Yeah, and maybe sometimes it really is just as simple as, hey, no, I don't think that's a female thing.

00;58;14;19 - 00;58;31;13
Unknown
I think guys do it as well, but they just don't talk about it. Yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of guys out there that just want to say hi to a girl or go out or, you know, just a random stranger, just start a conversation. But they think, oh, what if they say this? And but what if they don't?

00;58;31;15 - 00;58;52;11
Unknown
You got nothing to lose. If if you had to think in the psyche of another human being, say, say, both of us come from a place of what do you have to lose? But maybe not everyone comes from that place of what do you have to lose? For a lot of people who do think I have a lot of a lot to lose, I have my dignity.

00;58;52;18 - 00;59;29;03
Unknown
I have a fear of rejection. What if they laugh at me? You know, let's not judge on someone's conditioning or of their environment growing on. What some advice you have for someone in that position. Start as comfortable as possible. Like if you're very shy and you don't want to go out there and get judged, there's probably somebody in your life that's not family or friends, that's just on the outside that you have a little bit of a relationship with that you can say, oh, hey, how's your day going?

00;59;29;05 - 00;59;52;15
Unknown
But just start with somebody a little bit more comfortable, a little bit closer to your circle, and then just work your way up. As you get comfortable with that circle, work out to the next one. Like it, you know, might take about 20 conversations before you get to that random stranger in the cafe, but just start a little bit closer, a little bit more familiar, and it could even be like direct family.

00;59;52;16 - 01;00;12;29
Unknown
Like you might be that introverted or that closed off that you go to your mom or dad, brother, sister, best friend and just start talking to them and just work your way from there. Because I think in a world where, you know, so many of us live behind a screen, there's so much of our lives, it can become daunting.

01;00;13;02 - 01;00;42;13
Unknown
I'd even say. But I gone through a breakup. I closed myself off a fair bit, and I used social media to open myself up so as I probably seem like a massive creep. But I was messaging a lot of people say a message ten people, two people wrote back, but those two people wrote back. I've actually created a pretty good relationship with I'll probably never meet them because they're in different countries, but like we have a conversation like it can start there.

01;00;42;13 - 01;01;05;22
Unknown
So you can use things like social media to break that cycle and get yourself out there. But again, it's for me, even in that time, it was scary sending a message saying to a complete stranger, hey, how's your day going? But, you know, there's there's even less consequences with that because you can't see their action. They might not write back, and that's fine.

01;01;05;22 - 01;01;33;10
Unknown
But, you know, 1 or 2 of that do you can have a conversation and then it's like, oh, people talk to me. And then it creates that little less barrier to go out to the next person and talk to them in person. So how what advice would you give to transfer the little bits of confidence that you build up through engaging through social media, then to real life, because the two are very different, the approaches are very different.

01;01;33;10 - 01;01;54;15
Unknown
To be sitting with someone, you get instant feedback, you see their expressions, you see their body language. It is a very different approach to say, texting, pushing your phone away, not really knowing what's going on and then maybe getting feedback later.

01;01;54;17 - 01;01;58;14
Unknown
Yeah, I don't, I.

01;01;58;17 - 01;02;15;03
Unknown
Know Todd because again, like, my job is very like in person with that personal relationship. Yeah. I'm not sure. Do you find that there's more on the line to lose in person? Yes.

01;02;15;05 - 01;02;34;17
Unknown
Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. Like you said, there's that. I think we all have desire, that connection with that person in front of us. So when that connection is not there, they deny that connection. It's like, one. You want that, where if that's removed, then you just do it on the phone. It doesn't really matter. And it's like on to the next.

01;02;34;17 - 01;02;51;15
Unknown
So, in moments in person where. The rejection might feel like a bigger feeling. How do you sit with that? Or how do you process that?

01;02;51;17 - 01;02;56;05
Unknown
Yeah. And like.

01;02;56;08 - 01;03;24;11
Unknown
I think it's just. Okay. I guess it's come back to like, you know, confidence with the podcast. Like confidence with myself. But if you're confident with who you are and that person rejects that, that's okay. It's just not what they want. Whether it's a conversation, relationship, you know, whatever it whatever it is. But if you're confident within yourself and they deny that, that's okay.

01;03;24;11 - 01;03;45;22
Unknown
It's just not what they want. And that's not a reflection on you being a bad person or them being a bad person. It's just people want different things. So again, it may be like it might be the vibe you're giving off and you're still learning how to have a conversation with somebody. So at the start, you've got to learn, you know, what your vibe is.

01;03;45;24 - 01;04;09;02
Unknown
And sometimes rejection helps if that. And just taking a step back and going was that me was at them. What did I do wrong? What did I do wrong? But looking at it as a lens of how to improve instead of judgment, it's probably a good place to start as well. So to have a curiosity for learning and improving it definitely helps soften the blow.

01;04;09;04 - 01;04;10;16
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, I agree.

01;04;10;16 - 01;04;17;24
Unknown
take people on a journey. Take people in journey okay. So what what is your process for researching and preparing for episodes?

01;04;17;24 - 01;04;40;02
Unknown
How has that adapted and evolved over time? Good question. So back when I started this off as an informational podcast. So you know here's an episode about sleep is very structured like you know this is what you do when you wake up. Because waking up what you do waking up affects you sleep and that sort of stuff.

01;04;40;06 - 01;05;12;18
Unknown
Here's what you do in a day. And it's like very structured, like a lecture. I've never been to university, but I hear a lot of uni students fall asleep during lectures looking at one. Yep. So trying not to make it sound like a lecture. So, I've learned again, learned how to communicate and interview people. So it seems like I know what I'm talking about, but also trying to get them to just give their information without it seeming like a lecture.

01;05;12;20 - 01;05;34;09
Unknown
And that is definitely a skill you need to learn. It's like again if you go like I, you're saying my first interview with James was terrible because I was trying to make it probably sound like a lecture when it should have just been a conversation rolling. So that's definitely a lesson you've got to learn. It depends on like now preparation depends on the guests.

01;05;34;11 - 01;06;02;29
Unknown
So if there's a I have a doctor coming on midweek next week and he's written several books, like a lot of good information. So I want to know about that information beforehand. So I'll do a bit of research on him and the books. And like I probably won't read all these books, but I'll probably read, you know, go over a review of books like what's about all that sort of stuff, just so I'll have a bit more of an insight.

01;06;02;29 - 01;06;25;14
Unknown
But I'll still go into that conversation acting like I know nothing, because it's the best way to get the information out of there. Instead of saying, hey, you said this in this book, let's talk about that sort of almost goes back into that lecture, people like yourself. And then last week I had, right on, like, we've had some conversations, but I didn't want to bring up.

01;06;25;16 - 01;06;46;21
Unknown
I don't send you the questions because I want it to flow and I want to hear your opinion on those. So I can sort of evolve that into a conversation and, and go, oh, I didn't think about that. But what do you think about this? All right. So it just depends on who I have on. And again, that's just come with like me doing this enough to learn what works best.

01;06;46;23 - 01;07;06;22
Unknown
Like what's my style, all that sort of stuff. So and do you get feedback from guests for what works for them or how they feel like what worked really well or could be improved on sometimes? Yeah, I'll definitely say, hey, how's that for you? And, what? I think some people don't give me feedback, some people do.

01;07;06;24 - 01;07;28;21
Unknown
Some people just like, yeah, that was good. Okay. What does that mean? But again, it's just like when you edit, you sort of look through it, like I'll generally listen to it as well. Like, what could I have done better? But if it was a bad interview or a bad recording or bad podcast, it's generally something I've done.

01;07;28;21 - 01;07;50;19
Unknown
So how can I improve on the next one? Preparation, just making sure. Obviously simple stuff like making sure everything's charged, but that's just you should be doing that anyway. I like to get set up early because like, if you were like, messaging me saying I'm out the front and I'm halfway setting off and I'm like, oh, I get frustrated.

01;07;50;24 - 01;08;15;15
Unknown
And then you like, what's this guy doing? Like, because he's frustrated and we gone, yep, yep. So just again, making sure you prepared nice and early in a good state. Good state of mind. But preparing your mind, like, I've been ice boxing lately, so that just sort of snaps my mind out of whatever, groove. I mean, it sort of resets my brain.

01;08;15;15 - 01;08;38;07
Unknown
I love that. And then I listen to music, and then I'm ready for the podcast. But again, that's just something I've figured out what works best for me. What works best for other people? I don't know. But yeah, so that's probably about it. I think there's a lot of insights to take from that. Yeah. And and I'll just say like, don't overthink it.

01;08;38;09 - 01;09;09;00
Unknown
The more you overthink trying to do the best podcast ever, the more nervous you're going to be. So just try not to prepare too much, but just enough and probably learn that over time. Anyway, what works best for you. And in terms of and we've spoken about how following trends isn't your style. And I have so much respect for that in terms of other content creators, what engages you like, what do you find?

01;09;09;07 - 01;09;29;09
Unknown
Oh, like, this might be trendy or this might not be trendy, but what really catches your attention? And then how do you draw inspiration from that? Yeah. So that's hard, especially on social media. Like I try and find if I watch a reel and I'll watch it start to finish and I'm like, I want to watch that again.

01;09;29;09 - 01;09;46;15
Unknown
I'm like, oh, why did I want to watch that again? What was in it? Well, it was it the visual? Was it, the audio was what they were talking about. So I try and do that when I get caught up on that, like when I, when I listen or podcasts like I'm like, oh, that was a good podcast.

01;09;46;15 - 01;10;16;05
Unknown
And I really liked it. I'm like, well, what did I like it? Was it the conversation like, was it the guest? What did I talk about? So, I try and find things that I like sometimes. Again, with social media, it's super hard because you break straight through it and you lock onto the next one. But yeah, like when when you find something you like and it engages you, I try and emulate that or try it safe.

01;10;16;05 - 01;10;43;27
Unknown
I actually like doing it and if I didn't like doing it, then I'll change it. So like if you're, you know, I chop this up into little bits like 32nd, 42nd reels for social media. And I see different ways of doing it. And when I edit it, I'm like, oh, I didn't actually like editing in that way. Or, you know, when I watched it back, I didn't really like how it hit like, so you can sort of learn, try and see if you like it.

01;10;44;00 - 01;11;12;13
Unknown
Yeah. And that's in life in general too, right? Yeah. We're always just getting feedback from testing, trying in terms of. Advertisement and social media, because that is big now these days. I mean, I can only speak on seven years ago, which is a long time in the world of technology. What is what what is that like now? Is it something that you have to engage in?

01;11;12;13 - 01;11;21;22
Unknown
Is it something that's been on your radar, like a shame, I know nothing.

01;11;21;24 - 01;11;47;16
Unknown
I think advertising for me is like, on social media and all that sort of stuff is like getting my first couple of guests on, like, I know I need to do it. I've done it once or twice and I know I need to keep doing it, but it's just that confidence of like, if I pay for to boost a post, I know that's going to get pushed out to everybody like, you know, 100,000 people or whatever.

01;11;47;19 - 01;12;05;05
Unknown
And that that's just my insecurities of going, oh, am I ready for that? And it's the same as, like when I get my first couple of guests, I'm like, oh, I'm not ready for this. I'll wait. Oh, wait. So so what's holding you back? Good question.

01;12;05;07 - 01;12;27;16
Unknown
At the moment I think I just don't have the capacity to have a massive influx of people. Like, I know, it's just like I'm pushing this out and people listen to what they want to or not. I kinda prefer the slow organic growth rather than the big boom of paying and advertising and all that sort of stuff.

01;12;27;18 - 01;12;47;25
Unknown
Because you do get a lot of messages through. But and again, I appreciate everybody that listens, comments, likes and then shares their feedback. But I appreciate a bunch but it is a lot of messaging. So again I'm not making money from this. So it's hard for me to like I still have clients I need to look after.

01;12;47;26 - 01;13;20;25
Unknown
I need to like follow up leads, contact leads, booking system like all my schedule for the work I do get paid for. So I feel like I'm at that weird point where I could be making more money from this. But to make more money from it, I need to put more time into it. And it's just like, I mean, that weird zone of, if I transition into podcasting a little bit more, yes, I'll make money from it, but it's not till later on down the track, if that makes sense.

01;13;20;28 - 01;13;55;02
Unknown
So I'm not ready. Sacrifice my quality of life and the money I'm making to drop to then make money from these later on. I understand. What do you feel like would be the catalyst for you to to transition? I don't know. Do you have certain goals in mind? I think, like, again, slow growth. I'm not happy for slow growth.

01;13;55;02 - 01;14;13;14
Unknown
Like, I love doing this. I'm not going to stop doing it because of money. When I get to a point where this is making a little bit more money, I think that'll be the point where I can go, okay, like I can jump in a little bit more, put a bit more effort into the social media, the advertising, all that sort of stuff.

01;14;13;16 - 01;14;56;08
Unknown
Maybe get pay some, probably when I get to the point where I can pay somebody to help me do this. Is where I think I'll jump into it more because it does take a lot of time and effort. So to be able to go, okay, you're taking 50% of that you and do that. Yeah. Do you set yourself because I imagine being from a world of discipline, do you set yourself a structure out for your goals and and timelines for your goals.

01;14;56;11 - 01;15;19;12
Unknown
I have I guess I have an overarching goal, like I want to make $1 million before I'm 40, but that's just like a goal. It's not necessarily, I want to say $1 million in my bank account. It's more just to the point where like I'm financially free and money doesn't matter anymore. And that could be at 200,000 rather than a million.

01;15;19;12 - 01;16;03;21
Unknown
It's just like that's the goal. It's hard because but I don't, but I know I need to put out an episode every single week, so I don't really structure my goals in that way. It's like, I know what I'm trying to achieve. Like I go out and do try as hard as I can. I it could be a male thing, like I'm just out there doing things without thinking, but just trying to, maybe I should think about that a bit more if it destruction my goals a little bit more, because I think, you know, I'm a very goal oriented person and I faced this dilemma where, you know, your overarching goal, I think

01;16;03;24 - 01;16;27;03
Unknown
that is very clear, your purpose whatnot. And then it's the minute things that have to happen. And then years can pass by. You're like where did all that time go. Yeah. What what is it. What is the outcome. Sometimes I think it's very easy to set large goals for us, because it almost feels like they might be so unattainable.

01;16;27;05 - 01;16;52;29
Unknown
That time will pass me like, oh that's right, I've still got that goal that I'm trying to achieve in my life. Is it helpful? And I guess this is a question for myself too. And everyone else. Is it helpful to say, okay, let's take our big goal in life and break it down into little bite sized pieces of just like in training, do you expect someone to run a marathon next week?

01;16;53;01 - 01;17;31;10
Unknown
No. Do you expect them to be able to run a kilometer? Yeah, that's really achievable. And then once you hit that 1.1, 1.5. So I do wonder. And for myself, I wonder how can we structure out big, ambitious, bold goals and take our little bite sized pieces. Yeah. Good question. And be accountable for that. I think it's I find it very easy within the gym and strength training endurance also stuff because it's like yeah you got a kilometer.

01;17;31;10 - 01;17;49;08
Unknown
You want to run a kilometer. You go run a kilometer. Life just tends to throw you big curveballs at you all the time. So you think you run in the kilometer and then it's like pushes over and you've got to get back up and get keep going. And, and then that kilometer turns in the five and then you're like oh I thought I was near the end.

01;17;49;10 - 01;18;16;14
Unknown
So I always find it hard. Like I say, my goal is to like make $1 million. But like, I don't know what it looks like in between. And I can't like for me, my brain, I can't structure that into like, I do this, this, this and this. Because again, like if we're talking about podcasting, like I'll change my mind on how I want to do this so many times, but I feel like this is the right way doing it now.

01;18;16;17 - 01;18;37;00
Unknown
Again, I might get another 100 episodes and go like I want to pivot again. And will that stop me from achieving that goal? But then, like. Do you want to do something that's just you don't really like doing to achieve that goal? Or do you want to not necessarily get close to that goal, but do something you like doing?

01;18;37;03 - 01;18;59;21
Unknown
So that's something I battle with all the time as well. Have you? And this is from my personal curiosity, and you can feel free to leave this up. Have you explored the realm of mental cause, or because we were talking before about having like minded people around you, whether that's other podcasters who might have a bit more experience?

01;18;59;23 - 01;19;26;05
Unknown
And wisdom to share with you, or having mentors who are very intentional about here's the goal, and here is how we're going to get you there. Is that something that you've explored, more recently? Yeah. And it definitely helps. But again, it's hard because like, although you go to mentor and you say this is what you want to do, they may have done something similar, but it's not exactly how you want to do it.

01;19;26;07 - 01;19;49;13
Unknown
So I think, again, you've got to be careful of, you know, what advice you take and how you apply it to yourself. Again, it's like podcasting. You want to try it, see what you like, see the outcome whether you like it or not, maybe move on. And everyone comes from such a different place in life and have different perspectives.

01;19;49;13 - 01;20;25;20
Unknown
That one. She doesn't fit all exactly. Yep. Okay. Here are some more technical questions okay. Short for a short form versus long form. What do you find gains more traction. Yeah obviously short form does because you can get a lot like you know I'll post one real like across YouTube shorts, Instagram TikTok Facebook. And I could get, you know, a thousand views compared to one podcast that only gets a thousand, 10,000 views on the short form and 1000 on the.

01;20;25;23 - 01;20;46;03
Unknown
But again, it just it's quality. Like, I like long form because it's quality. Like if somebody's still here almost an hour and a half in, you know, they're getting a lot. We've rambled a bit, but it's still like they're getting at like quality out of it rather than a 32nd clip that they're just going to double tap and then scroll to the next one.

01;20;46;05 - 01;21;08;25
Unknown
They're not really going to stop and go, yeah, I agree with that. Or you know what I mean? Like it's just on to the next. So I like why the focus is long form. I like long form. It's what I do. It's just I know that I can get more people onto long form with the short form. So I will always do the short form for the long form.

01;21;08;28 - 01;21;33;27
Unknown
So in terms of and this is more technical, you've mentioned that your short form goes on to say TikTok, Instagram, YouTube shorts, etc. do you use a centralized platform to upload all of that, or is it each platform requires? Yeah, I've tried the centralized one where it pushes out to all. I don't know if, this is my theory.

01;21;33;29 - 01;21;46;16
Unknown
I don't think the individual apps like that. Okay. And they keep the views and they were like there were press. The views really. Again, it's just my experience. I don't know if that's an actual thing, but when I go

01;21;46;16 - 01;21;58;08
Unknown
on to individually and edit, like it takes a long time. But when I jump on a TikTok edit, the video on TikTok, put the caption on TikTok and then do the same for Instagram.

01;21;58;08 - 01;22;17;14
Unknown
Like in the app, editing all that sort of stuff in the app. They just seem to get more views. So I do it that way. It's a little bit longer, takes a bit more effort, but like if you're putting in the effort, you might as well put in the effort rather than just relying on that one central one.

01;22;17;16 - 01;22;43;19
Unknown
And again, whether the apps actually repress the views and locks and all that sort of stuff in the debate. Yeah. So when you first up as a newcomer or someone starting, how much time did you dedicate and how much time would you recommend dedicating to whether it's a podcast or creating content? And over time, how has that changed and what your routine look like now?

01;22;43;21 - 01;23;03;19
Unknown
Yeah. So for me, it's gotten more and more over time. So the better I got at podcasting, the easier it's got at editing and all that sort of stuff. So the more time I could put in and like now, like I get more guests on, I want to put more time and effort in. So, you know, this episode does better for you, for me.

01;23;03;22 - 01;23;32;15
Unknown
So, I know as your podcasts get better, I think you should put more time and effort into it. But how much time you should put into it is up to you. Like, you know, how much time have you got to put in it? More is always better, but not necessarily necessary. So, yeah, for someone who is just starting off, realistically, how many, how many hours in a week?

01;23;32;17 - 01;23;52;08
Unknown
If you wanted to pump out one episode, what does that look like? I I'd probably dedicate if you're just doing this. So if you work nine, five, five days a week, most people do. And I we don't, but not most people do. I'll just probably spend like half a day on the weekend, either Saturday or Sunday, which is totally achievable.

01;23;52;08 - 01;24;12;18
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. I'll do that. Yeah, but just see if you like it doing that. And I think it's doing it on the weekend is a good, good way to see if you actually want to do it. Because if you go, okay, Saturday morning I'm going to do this, but then your friend's like, hey, do this, do this, come out, do this.

01;24;12;18 - 01;24;32;22
Unknown
And you're like, yeah, okay, that sounds better than podcasting. You know, you probably don't want to actually podcast. So but if you say, nah, I'm doing this podcasting, you like your friends, but you're, oh, he's serious about this. Podcasting can't do that. Podcasting, like so, you know, you serious? If you know, all those other things get pushed aside and you want a podcast.

01;24;32;22 - 01;25;01;12
Unknown
So I try it on the weekend. It's good advice. Thank you. I might take that advice. How much time goes into planning? So writing, executing and editing for you now compared to when you first started? Probably spending about eight hours a week. Okay. Doing all that. In saying that, I was definitely helping a lot so I can put the transcript.

01;25;01;12 - 01;25;20;09
Unknown
So I'll when we get when I get back to my room, I put all this into a file on my computer, and then I upload all those files. In the Premiere Pro, I edit on Premiere Pro, Cut it all up, sync it all up. So if you if if everybody's wondering, I'll actually do that in the vlog that goes along with this.

01;25;20;11 - 01;25;40;28
Unknown
So you can actually see my process. But from that I can get the transcript and I get the transcripts, put that into an AI and then myself, and I'll chat about the transcript. Oh, I'd love to see that. And it's just like, oh, what points of interest are there? And it's like, well, this, you know, you talked you spoke about this.

01;25;40;28 - 01;26;00;08
Unknown
At this point, I can use that time stamp to then use that to cut out for a, a real. I can use that as a post. I'll just say, hey can you write me an Instagram post for that and write me an Instagram post. So then I've got the Instagram post. Plus I would know where to get the real from from the bigger video.

01;26;00;11 - 01;26;22;02
Unknown
So I has made that a lot easier. And then the more you work I, the more advanced and you buy. It just creates a faster process. So yeah. Have you found, have you tried all the different AI platforms? There's like ChatGPT there? I think Google came out with one claw and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, I don't care enough to try them all.

01;26;22;04 - 01;26;44;03
Unknown
I'll just use chat GTP. I know Claude's meant to be more like a human type thing, but yeah, I love to see the process. Yeah. Are you including that in. Yep. Amazing. So. Yeah. And then from there, like, obviously now as well, I'm reaching out to a lot more guests. So there's a lot more of writing.

01;26;44;05 - 01;26;53;20
Unknown
You know, invites to come on and all that sort of stuff, bit of back and forth emails, text, all that sort of thing about trying to get people on as well. So that takes up a few hours as well. Okay.

01;26;53;20 - 01;27;10;12
Unknown
So just on the whole, like, my process of things. Yeah, I'm going to show a video at the end on how to edit and how I do it all. But I think it's important that you find like how you do things like I use Premiere Pro, but it's very expensive. It's probably the top of the range.

01;27;10;12 - 01;27;43;12
Unknown
Like you can use cap cut and that sort of thing. I think it's just fine. What platforms like what ways what things work for you? Like there's AI where you can upload a video like a long form video now, and it pumped out a bunch of, like reels. Really? Yeah. So it'll it'll go through the video and find like the words that are trending and cut that, you know, half an hour video into 32nd reels that it thinks will be trending.

01;27;43;12 - 01;28;07;08
Unknown
Right. That's so interesting. It doesn't do the best job all the time. Sometimes it makes no sense, like because it'll chop and change to try and get a, trending video. But yeah, so there's all that sort of stuff out there, like, again, you just find what works best for you. I think that's interesting because we can only be so objective towards our own content.

01;28;07;10 - 01;28;28;19
Unknown
And I find that myself when I'm uploading content, I'm like, oh, but all of this is important. But realistically, how much of it is important? So even though, like you say, sometimes it doesn't make sense, at least it might give you a bit of perspective of what maybe externally might be important because it's so hard to be objective about yourself.

01;28;28;21 - 01;28;42;11
Unknown
So onto that last question. What are some of the most common technical mistakes that one might face when starting this journey?

01;28;42;13 - 01;29;05;10
Unknown
Like the obvious. Like not charging things. Like I've said, Adobe sucks. When you sit down to record something, it's not charged or, you know, you haven't got the the SD card and the camera, that sort of thing. So just making sure that you got you set up right, but it just comes back to your process. It's like I just find like when I get back, everything goes on charge.

01;29;05;11 - 01;29;33;11
Unknown
I take all stars out, upload all the videos from there to the computer, and then put the stars back in my little thing on the side so I know where to get them for next time. But again, that's just processes that you learn. You stuff up over time and you get better at, backing everything up. Like so when I take all the audio, the videos, all that sort of stuff back to my computer, I put it on the cloud.

01;29;33;11 - 01;29;57;04
Unknown
So I use Apple for everything. So it goes on the cloud. Because you don't want to lose it, because if you lose it, it's gone. So always have a backup. Obviously, once it's already edited, uploaded to YouTube and to, I suppose we haven't really spoke about hosting podcast, have we? We'll touch on that before we finish.

01;29;57;06 - 01;30;22;02
Unknown
Oh. On Spotify. Yeah. So once it's uploaded everywhere, it's uploaded everywhere, and it can't really disappear. Do you archive the raw footage once it's uploaded? I do, so that's all in my cloud, but, I do. I really need to keep my, like, hundredth episode. Probably not. Like, I'm not really, really going to reuse that for any reason if I need it.

01;30;22;08 - 01;30;43;07
Unknown
It's already on YouTube or Spotify, so I don't want it up. I don't think you need to keep it, but I think that's just up to you whether you want to or not. So for hosting, obviously YouTube, you just upload it to YouTube and there's just a little link to say, a little thing that you click to say, this is a podcast.

01;30;43;09 - 01;31;14;00
Unknown
So YouTube have their own podcasting thing, hosting platform, YouTube music. So it goes on the YouTube music. That one uses it. So, so it uploads as a video on YouTube and as a podcast on YouTube. Music. Okay. But I use Buzzsprout. I'll put it in the link in the descriptions. So you upload the audio to Buzzsprout, and Buzzsprout pushes it out to every podcast podcasting platform.

01;31;14;00 - 01;31;43;24
Unknown
So Spotify, Apple. Yeah. Apple podcast, any other podcasting platform that you can think of way where it's audio only Buzzsprout pushes it out to there. That's very handy to have. Have you tried, Spotify as video podcast? Yeah. So I had now upload the videos to podcasts so that you have to do separately. It's a bit of a bit of a process.

01;31;43;24 - 01;32;10;13
Unknown
It's not too bad. So Buzzsprout pushes the audio out to all of them, including Spotify. But then I need to log into Spotify to upload the video. Okay. Yeah, that that gains better traction than just audio. That's not on Spotify. Again, from what I've, what I've experienced, no. Okay. For some reason, most of my listeners I had a look at this yesterday.

01;32;10;13 - 01;32;39;29
Unknown
It was morning, where my stats are most of my, like, people listening to the podcast on Apple, not Spotify. Oh, okay. Apple podcasts. Do you do you think that has to do with your genre or like. No, I dunno, I think it's just I just think it's where most of my audience listen, I think it's about 40% and then the rest is just broken up over Spotify and then a couple of other little ones.

01;32;40;02 - 01;33;13;26
Unknown
So I, I don't think that matters to be honest. Like just where are people listening? They're listening. Obviously I try and push people more towards YouTube because eventually you can get paid for the views and the ads and all that sort of stuff. So yeah, YouTube gives you a lot more stats, which is also handy. And why, like, it's good to push people towards YouTube because you just see how many people download an episode from Spotify.

01;33;13;29 - 01;33;35;15
Unknown
You don't know how long they've listened for, you don't know if they paused and then come back, that sort of thing where YouTube's a lot more in-depth. You can see how long people listen for if they drop off, if they come back and start listening. So there's a lot more analytics behind YouTube, and I imagine the monetization is better.

01;33;35;16 - 01;33;56;28
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I don't know if Spotify pay podcasters. I think they sign deals with podcasters. You need to be pretty big to get some deals from them. But I guess that would be a good goal to have as well. Thank you for all of your insight and information. Thanks for coming on. It's been good. Yeah, had a great time.

01;33;56;29 - 01;34;21;16
Unknown
Me too. We'll have to wait for your podcast to come out. Haha. We'll have you on as a guest to talk about your experiences in life. Definitely. Where can people find you? I did not expect that question. Where can people find me right now? I don't really have anywhere for anyone to find me. Okay. I'll wait.

01;34;21;16 - 01;34;44;02
Unknown
Are you you're going to have to edit this because I'm, like, processing and thinking right now because obviously we talk about intentions. Okay. Where can people find me currently, you can only find me on Instagram. Whitney Dot untethered. And in the future, you may find me on Spotify and YouTube and all of these other platforms we've been discussing what we will find you and you will.

01;34;44;07 - 01;35;05;20
Unknown
You will, if you're listening and you're wondering about all the other stuff we're talking about again, there's a vlog to go with this, the setup of this room. And then I will add in the editing of my content. So you can all see that as well. Thanks everybody. And we'll talk to you again very soon. Bye bye.

01;35;08;25 - 01;35;42;14
Unknown
I'm.